Letters: Take evolution out of schools also

This is in regard to the report regarding the approval received for the removal of creationism and intelligent design from science courses and textbooks. I also applaud this action, but recommend that the theory of evolution be also removed from those science courses.

I believe that if our students’ performance in science is to be improved, they should only be exposed to solid scientific principles and experimentally proven theories. The theory of evolution has some holes in explaining, among other things, how the universe and life came into existence.

I believe the discussion of these theories belong in university courses on philosophy, religious studies and the like, not in science courses. Even then it has been reported that universities have let some professors go, and the Smithsonian let one of its scientists go, for writing articles supporting the idea of intelligent design. It amazes me that in the 21st century educators are behaving like the monks of the Spanish Inquisition in suppressing ideas that disagree with theirs.

Armando Corripio

professor emeritus

Baton Rouge

Comments

1) Comment by potkcalb - 08/01/2013

I know I can't educate him jedleland. I just have this fantasy that I can convince him to stay on topic and stop wandering all over the place.

2) Comment by maybe_sparrow - 08/01/2013

I kinda don't think it's an act.

3) Comment by jedleland - 08/01/2013

phil suckered you in again huh? he understands jus fine but you get a lot more attention acting the knucklehead

4) Comment by potkcalb - 08/01/2013

Phil evolution has nothing whatsoever to with how life began but only how life forms change, evolve. It has nothing to do with shaking chemicals or bringing people back to life. None of that has anything to do with evolution. Do you understand? Do you understand? Do you understand? Evolution does not purport to explain "what life really is." It may be a legitimate question but it has nothing to do with evolution. Stop conflating it with evolution.

5) Comment by phil - 08/01/2013

polkcalb - In summary - to answer your direct comment to me - yes I DO understand but apparently you do not. I think you are still locked inside that box. I state here what I have read in the past (actually 50 scientific books in just the last few years) to give a background just so people will know I am not talking from ignorance but from fact. If you have not learned that explanations of unknown/unproven science border on philosophy or actually ARE philosophy, then maybe you possibly need to read more. Nobody has placed a bunch of chemicals inside a test tube, shaken well, added energy and created a human being yet.. No human has bought a dead person back to life yet . We actually know very little about what that thing we call "life" really is. However, I will admit that we unfortunately have gotten pretty good as a society at ending life in wars, by abortion, murder etc..

6) Comment by potkcalb - 08/01/2013

I should have added Phil that you are correct, the modern theory of evolution has "developed a lot since the days of Darwin." Educated people know that. But the essentials of evolutionary theory have been confirmed by modern findings in paleoanthropology, evolutionary genetics, and every other branch of science. May I suggest that you obtain the NOVA Science NOW DVD "What Darwin Never Knew" (available for less than $30) for what has been learned since Darwin's time approximately a century and a half ago.

7) Comment by potkcalb - 08/01/2013

Phil as I an many others have told you umpteen times no one with the exception of some "creationists" claims to have all the answers. Please none of this nonsense about thinking in or out of the box. And for what must be the hundredth time evolution has nothing to do with the Big Bang or how the universe began. Do you understand? Do you understand? Do you understand? Incidentally I know of no scientist who claims (as you have routinely claimed) that science borders on philosophy.Your frequent referral to how many books you have read is embarrassing. No one would guess that from your comments. But if you really have read that many then try to reflect it in your writing.

8) Comment by prbeav - 08/01/2013

The reference was vague, so I looked one up: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/19/new-orleans-school-bans-creationism-revisionist-history-textbook-texas_n_2330724.html so I could celebrate, and I do.

9) Comment by maybe_sparrow - 08/01/2013

Oh wow...someone read over 50 books. Astounding. (yes-- sarcasm) Anyway, the professor who wrote this letter isn't even a biologist. Forget about it.

10) Comment by phil - 08/01/2013

Unfortunately some people here seem to want to limit their discussions to a box that some people call evolution theory. Evolution theory has actually developed a lot since the days of Darwin because of new discoveries (like DNA) and advances in technology. If you want to stay inside the Darwin "box" of evolution and stay behind the times, then that is up to you. I tend to look at the big picture of the evolution of everything and try to stay out of that box that seems to limit thinking. The truth is I do not have all of the answers and you do not either.

11) Comment by phil - 08/01/2013

For those who commented about me. I am not the most intelligent person around and I admit it. However, I do have a college education and have read many many books (over 50) including books about cosmology, biology, DNA, evolution, physics the BIble etc including the books by Stephen Hawkin. Even the top scientific people who write these books admit that science is bordering on philosophy when there are no known answers. If you do know exactly how the universe began and what happened prior to the "big bang" then be sure to let everyone here know. I would love to know all of the answers, so please tell me what they are.

12) Comment by MBW - 08/01/2013

Funny how the conservatives have the own PC police. Science teachers can't teach real science anymore because the Right demands that we be PC and pretend that evolution may not be real.

13) Comment by DMJ - 08/01/2013

It's absurd that we even have this debate.

14) Comment by MBW - 08/01/2013

We should just let our science teachers teach science, not religion. They're not mutually exclusive, but they are also NOT the same. Science is about evidence and inquiry. Faith is just that: belief in things unseen/unknown.

15) Comment by MBW - 08/01/2013

It looks like some folks need to learn the difference between a hypothesis and a scientific theory. Here are the definitions: A hypothesis is: "a supposition or proposed explanation made on the basis of limited evidence as a starting point for further investigation" A theory is defined as a *well-substantiated* explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment. Learn the difference

16) Comment by MBW - 08/01/2013

Hey Professor- Let's follow your logic: Gravity is a scientific theory too. Should we stop teaching that as well? Start telling our kids we're not sure it really exists?

17) Comment by Chucky - 08/01/2013

"Miller–Urey experiment",Monomer accumulation,proteinoid microspheres, Eigen's hypothesis,Wächtershäuser's hypothesis,autocatalytic sets,Zn-World,Clay hypothesis theory,Thermosynthesis,Homochirality hypothesis,RNA-world hypothesis, God.

18) Comment by Dr_GS_Hurd - 07/01/2013

****Comment Removed for Violation of Terms of Use**** ??? A quote from Charles Darwin is a "violation of terms of use?" Then that is why people are so ignorant in some parts of the world.

19) Comment by Dr_GS_Hurd - 07/01/2013

****Comment Removed for Violation of Terms of Use****

20) Comment by JimmyD7 - 07/01/2013

Thanks, Potkcalb, for the clue. You can tell I'm new here. Also, I second your response to bourbon-soda. Many non-biologists fail to appreciate how central Evolution is to the comprehension to the entire field. I recommend googling Dobzhansky's still-cogent article from 1973, titled "Nothing in Biology Makes Sense Except in the Light of Evolution." It's out of date, and still one of the best short explanations of why Evolution must be true.

21) Comment by potkcalb - 07/01/2013

bourbon-soda if evolution was eliminated from biology classes biology would consist of nothing more than naming and identifying plants and animals.The alternative is to eliminate biology classes.

22) Comment by potkcalb - 07/01/2013

JimmyD if you were as familiar with Phil's nonsense posts on these sites as the rest of us who have been subjected to them over the weeks and months you would understand that he just likes to make things up to get attention (oops he just got mine).

23) Comment by don_w - 07/01/2013

As a biologist myself, I suppose I've grown weary of re-hashing the same arguments over and over again to a population that is either incapable or unwilling to look at the evidence objectively. As that famous comedian said "You can't fix stupid!". I'm,convinced that The Advocate prints such letters from time to time just to get its readers riled up. I wasn't familiar with Mr. (Dr.?) Corripio's background, but it was obvious he wasn't a biologist and, judging from his writing style, not professor of English either. I will say I'm encouraged, however, by the number of people that have made a stand against his views. Maybe there is hope for us afterall.

24) Comment by chem - 07/01/2013

It's been stated in a previous post but I guess it needs to be stated again: Evolution has nothing to do with the origins of the universe, nor does it have anything to do with the origin of life. Evolution deals with the changes in organisms. So please stop saying that evolution does not explain where the universe came from and how life started.

25) Comment by JimmyD7 - 07/01/2013

I can't imagine why anyone would say, as phil does below, that "you cannot really talk evolution without including the evolution of the entire universe and the evolution of the basic elements from basically nothing to living things( including humans)." The idea that these very distinct processes are somehow united is nonsense repeated endlessly by creationists only. Those who actually understand these processes realize that the origin of the universe and its elements, the rise of life from chemistry, and the evolution of life forms by means of genetic change are all three separate, distinct processes. Check some of the books listed by Doc Hurd, below. Many excellent remarks below acknowledge this.

26) Comment by RedStickNative - 07/01/2013

@phil The biological Theory of Evolution explaining the diversity of life on this planet has been proved beyond any doubt. The evolving nature of the universe is in little doubt as well unless you have severe doubts about the veracity of physics and observable proofs that have been made, tested and verified. I agree with Stephen Hawking that philosophy is dead in light of the fact that science is answering the deepest questions pondered by those so-called philosophers who had no technology to discern the real answers but could only use human imagination and magical beings for explanations. It is telling that you cannot separate fact from imagination. Schools are meant to teach what is factually proven to be known, not what we'd like to be true.

27) Comment by Spector567 - 07/01/2013

Readers should be thankful to know that "profossor emeritus" means RETIRED professor. Mr. Corripio is over the age of 70 and he taught Automatic processor control, plant design and other computer based chemistry. In short his job was to artificially create chemicles and he can't see any other way for it to occure.

28) Comment by phil - 07/01/2013

With no absolute proof it is called philosophy and there is no final proof for how the universe began. You cannot really talk evolution without including the evolution of the entire universe and the evolution of the basic elements from basically nothing to living things( including humans). Then it gets to which philosophy you believe in when you side with either evolution theory or creationism/intelligent design. If you can't teach both, then you are not teaching the entire subject. So teach it in a science class or if it bothers you to do that then teach it in a philosophy class.

29) Comment by potkcalb - 07/01/2013

On another note Dr. Corripio refers to the removal of "intelligent design" from science courses. Intelligent design is not a scientific theory. It is a belief, the same belief almost universally held before the Age of Enlightenment, that everything not understood must be the result of a miracle. There may have been and there may be miracles, but it is an absurdity to conflate science with the supernatural in science courses because there is no way to collect evidence, analyze, or investigate the supernatural.

30) Comment by RedStickNative - 07/01/2013

My dear professor, your reference to the Spanish Inquisition was entirely appropriate but not in the way you intended. Gallileo would agree with me that religion's authorities have suppressed scientific evidence from public knowledge for centuries. Only by keeping the flock ignorant can they control their gullible flocks. Evolution is only debatable by those who do not understand it or refuse to learn and see the overwhelming evidence for it. The origins of the universe and life itself is a whole other subject, however, science does have much to say about origins as well. As a supposedly educated person, you could do yourself great improvement to undertake a study of what is now known about those subjects. I obviously disagree with your letter and I would love to see the fact of evolution taught as early as kindergarten. If there is anything that actually makes life worth living, it is the understanding of what really is our place in the universe and not what some ignorant ancient people dreamed up to explain what they had no way of understanding. The invention of supernatural, magical gods to explain everything belongs to ancient mythology and has no place in today's understanding of reality. There may still be unanswered questions, but it will be science that ultimately answers them not religion.

31) Comment by DMJ - 07/01/2013

Another false comparison. Yes, evolution has some holes (in that it never attempts to explain the origin of the universe)...but intelligent design is all holes. It's not supported by science AT ALL. I'm really starting to hate the whole "both sides" nonsense that occurs when science, religion and education collide.

32) Comment by Chucky - 07/01/2013

palefire - I was going to say that but you did first. Oh well, later.

33) Comment by JimmyD7 - 07/01/2013

****Comment Removed for Violation of Terms of Use****

34) Comment by potkcalb - 07/01/2013

Reference has been made to the ludicrous propaganda film Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed presented by talk show host Ben Stein that has been roundly and soundly ridiculed by the scientific community. Its thesis is that the supernatural explanation of "creationism" is a legitimate subject for science classes (an oxymoron if ever there was one) but that it is being denied by a dark cabal of scientists engaged in a conspiracy to restrict science education.

35) Comment by potkcalb - 07/01/2013

Evolution has nothing to do with how the universe "came into existence." How anyone in this day and age can ask such an ignorant and uninformed question, especially one who styles himself an educator, is beyond me. Paleoanthropology, evolutionary genetics, comparative anatomy, molecular biology and every other branch of science confirms the modern theory of evolution. No other purported explanation of how life forms change meets any of the criteria of scientific theory.

36) Comment by chem - 07/01/2013

I am embarrassed for Professer Corripio. The only two reasons for someone writing such an inane letter is ignorance or an overriding religious belief. I suspect the latter.

37) Comment by Mygulfbleedsforu - 07/01/2013

Jeezum Pete.

38) Comment by bourbon-soda - 07/01/2013

Evolution is about is correct as science gets, but the obsession with imposing it on people who don't want to learn it or have their children learn it, suggests an unseemly interest in undermining people's philosophical and moral grounding. That school only accounts for about 17% of educational outcome has been posted here on several occasions, with reference to credible authority. If biology is, just guessing, one of sixteen high school academic courses, then teaching evolution would account for at most (assuming that biology is 100% evolution) 1/16th of 17%, or just over 1% of educational outcome. The public schools could avoid a lot of conflict by dropping evolution except as an elective, possibly presenting it merely as an efficient way of thinking about things (as did Galileo for heliocentrism) and devoting the resources thereby conserved to enhance the teaching math, logic, and standard English, all of which could stand some improvement to say the least.

39) Comment by Bighug - 07/01/2013

While we are at it, why not eliminate teaching the theory of gravity and the physics of motion? I pity the students who had a professor who had such little knowledge of science. Question for palefire: how was the book?

40) Comment by nimby? - 07/01/2013

there are kids attending local high schools who cannot read or write , yet have promoted year after year without merit . perhaps we should examine our priorities .

41) Comment by gary - 07/01/2013

Wow! Prof Corripio must have one of the folks Randy Newman refers to in his song "RedNecks" - boys go into L__ dumb and come out dumb - or something like that.

42) Comment by misterfalcon - 07/01/2013

I find that sacred cow reference highly ironic coming from an adherent to the second-hand teachings of a sacred lamb.

43) Comment by [e-mail] - 07/01/2013

Hey Armando; they're coming out of the woodwork to attack you because you used their own logic against them! It's predictable but always fun to watch. Evolution has become a sacred cow to certain people; they are not open to a debate that asks questions that they can't answer so because they can't reinforce their argument they attack the questing mind.

44) Comment by Dr_GS_Hurd - 07/01/2013

I must add that the misinfermation given by Prof. Corripio about fired professors, and "the Smithsonian let one of its scientists go" is a fraud. ` The most likely source for this farud is the creationist propaganda film "Expelled." For the reality based world's opinions on "Expelled," see <a href="http://www.expelledexposed.com/">Expelled Exposed.</a> And, I egotistically hope you enjoy my article on Expelled for the National Center for Science Education, <a href="http://ncse.com/rncse/28/5-6/why-re-invent-crystal">Why Re-Invent the Crystal?</a>

45) Comment by Dr_GS_Hurd - 06/01/2013

Sadly, someone who should know better doesn't. Prof. Corripio is a chemist and fails to realize that followers of creationism reject chemistry just as they do geology, astronomy, physics, and biology. He is woefully ignorant of biology. The emergence of new species, the "acid test" for evolution, has been directly observed in nature, and laboratory settings. I have compiled a list of dozens of particularly interesting examples: Google "Emergence of New Species" at Stones and Bones. But long before, the independent rediscovery of genetics led to the Hardy-Weinberg equilibrium which allows a computationally exact measure of how genetic mutation penetrates population driving evolutionary variability. Environmental variation, and natural selection complete the theory. Even sadder, Prof. Corripio is apparently no longer able to tell the difference between evolutionary biology, cosmology or abiogenesis. These are three independent scientific disciplines. For people still interested in reading current scientific work, I recommend" Evolution: Prothero, Donald. 2007 "Evolution: What The Fossils Say and Why It Matters" Colombia University Press. Carroll, Sean B. 2005 "Endless Forms Most Beautiful" New York: Norton Abiogenesis (origin of life): Schopf, William (editor) 2002 "Life's Origin: The Beginnings of Biological Evolution" University of California Press Deamer, David W. 2011 “First Life: Discovering the Connections between Stars, Cells, and How Life Began” University of California Press Cosmology; Krauss, Lawrence 2012 “A Universe From Nothing” New York: Free Press Susskind, Leonard 2005 "The Cosmic Landscape: String Theory and the Illusion of Intelligent Design" New York: Little and Brown Publishers

46) Comment by Stephen - 06/01/2013

The concept of evolution explains quite a bit about what is observed in the natural world. It is good science and needs to be taught to our children. Biology and geology rely upon the concept of evolution to explain much of what is observed in those fields. Beyond this, evolution is used in the practical fields of health science and petroleum exploration to solve everyday problems--keeping us more healthy and better able to find oil, gas, and other valuable minerals.

47) Comment by spqr - 06/01/2013

Absurd letter.

48) Comment by palefire - 06/01/2013

How does one become a professor of anything —much less within the field of science – and not know that the theory of evolution doesn't attempt to explain how life came into existence and especially not how the universe began?