Letter: Science is science, not religion

In his letter of Aug. 20, Cecil Phillips cites the website dissentfromdarwin.org and a list of “scientists” that have supposedly signed on to its anti-evolution agenda. This website and the list are products of the Discovery Institute, an outfit that has long attempted to “teach the controvers” and push a religious agenda.

Are there problems or even flaws in evolutionary theory as it now stands? Of course. This is expected of any scientific theory. The theory of evolution has been revised, fine-tuned and altered on a number of occasions. For example, we now have genetic data that were unavailable 10 years ago that are helping us refine some of the findings of paleoanthropology.

There is no doubt a basic misunderstanding of science that is the root of the problem here. Science involves an unceasing attempt to disconfirm existing laws and theories, and scientists are relentless and very good at what they do. Thus, it is natural and expected for theories to be adjusted from time to time. Of course, evolutionary theory in its current iteration is not absolutely true. No scientist would ever make such a claim. It is, however, the only existing naturalistic theory of our origins and that is why it remains the fundamental organizing principle upon which all of the biological sciences are based.

Other theories that have been put forth in an attempt to explain our origins have not come close to passing empirical muster and that is why they are not taught in biology, anthropology and genetics classes in mainstream universities anywhere. All of our schools, especially schools funded by taxpayer dollars, should teach good, standard, fundamental science.

More importantly, individuals like Phillips should stop implying that the theory of evolution is controversial in scientific circles. It is not. This controversy exists only in school boards and state legislatures, since these individuals can freely pursue a religious agenda without the inconvenience of empirical substantiation.

Finally, science doesn’t really care if its findings do not agree with our personal, religious or philosophical notions regarding how we would like the world to be. Standard science, as it is practiced today, is our best attempt to understand the world as it actually is. It doesn’t have the luxury of embracing nonfalsifiable and nonempirical claims. An indication of the validity of science and the scientific method can be seen in the global consensus regarding the theories and laws of the basic sciences.

On the other hand, no such consensus exists in the domain of religious belief where approximately 10,500 different versions (at last count) compete for followers.

James Houk, Ph.D.

college professor

Baton Rouge


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Comments (53)


1) Comment by 1ryben - 29/08/2012

Calling atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color.

2) Comment by DMJ - 29/08/2012

There's no such thing as a "fundamentalist atheist." In fact, rejection of fundamentalism is a key ingredient of atheism. You'd think this wouldn't need to be explained to an adult. But then again...you wouldn't think that we'd be arguing about evolution either. Oh well...

3) Comment by chem - 28/08/2012

A red herring is a diversion to keep from discussing the main issue. Asking what is the definition of life is a diversion, so it is a red herring. The letter, and hence the discussion, is about science and religion, and specifically, the teaching of creation dogma in schools. What that has to do with the definition of life, I don't know. But what I do know is that as science has evolved, it has put to rest all of the silly notions that used to be explained by religion. For example, today, we know about dementia, schizophrenia, depression, and other mental diseases. We also know how to treat such conditions. Religion believes that such things are caused by demons and possession. Failed crops were thought to be brought about by witches and curses. We now know that certain weather patterns can cause droughts. Religion taught that women who were on their periods were unclean and that anything they touched was also unclean. Also, they had to "purifiy" themselves afterward. Today, we know the biological reasons. Volcanoes and earthquakes were a sign that the gods were mad. Sciences has shown the real reasons for such things involving plate tectonics and magma pockets. And the list goes on.

4) Comment by jedleland - 28/08/2012

i reckon hes implying that he doesnt get out as much as he used to aint too young any more was never too bright and dagnabit enjoys the attention same as all of us

5) Comment by 1ryben - 28/08/2012

"when something can not be explained does it automatically become a red herring?" I'm not sure if this is true or false, but I do know that when something can not be explained it doesn't mean we insert a god in place of the answer. To continue the theme of repeating one's self, let me state again, for millennia man had crafted gods to explain the natural world. As science, and specifically man's ability to measure has improved, man has found a rational, natural explanation. NEVER ONCE in history has the inverse happened. ------as an aside, what's the over/under on how many posts it takes for Phil to chime in on a religious/science article to state that science doesn't have all the answers? (Phil, hopefully you don't take that as an attack on you, I mean it in jest)-----by the way, Phil, you state that every chance you get, but what exactly are you implying? What point are you trying to accomplish with that statement?

6) Comment by potkcalb - 28/08/2012

Phil I have no knowledge as to whether there is or is not a God so I have never expressed an opinion about it here or anywhere else. I have never seen any evidence to indicate the existence of one, but like most scientists I can not claim to know more than I know. I respect your and everyone's right to have religious beliefs as long as it is understood that religion is solely a personal and private matter and not something to be foisted off on those who do not want it.

7) Comment by phil - 28/08/2012

Yes polkcalb - I believe in God and apparently you and some others who are fundamentalist atheists here do not. So yes I WILL be back to tell my views again. But do not pretend that you haven't stayed here and repeated your same views over and over again too. See you back here on the next letter to the editor etc. Also, if my comments seem repetitive to you then just do not read them. Also I personally will ask for both God's help and for help from doctors if I get a tumor. So I will hopefully have both God and science on my side. Also when something cannot be explained does it automatically become a red herring? What in the heck does that mean other than you just do not understand the subject in discussion so it is time to bail out?

8) Comment by chem - 28/08/2012

To say that you have god on your side is to say that you have nothing. Your so-called god is a myth, no different than thor, zeus, poseidon, or other such nonsense. I'll bet that the faithful have ALL been praying for this storm to bypass this area, but obviously, that's not going to happen. But science can predict with great precision where it will track and its wind speed and rain. Good luck with your nonexistent god.

9) Comment by potkcalb - 28/08/2012

Mildred Citizen if we both get brain tumors you ask for God's help and I'll ask for the chemotherapist and the radiologist. Good luck.

10) Comment by potkcalb - 28/08/2012

Phil what are you talking about "admitting" that science does not have all the answer? I and others have pointed out over and over and over again over weeks in response to you that science does not claim to have all the answers. I don't know how many times I have said that in response to your foolish statement. No scientist makes such a ridiculous claim. But it makes no difference because I can guarantee that it won't be long before you are repeating the same thing again. Apparently you are unable to remember what you have said much less what anyone else has said. Your statement about eye witnesses to what happened a couple of hundred years ago is too nonsensical to respond to. As to the Bible, it is a book of myths and legends, truths and half truths, fact and fiction, allegories and parables, fantasies and superstitions, interpretations and reinterpretations, scribes and transcriptions compiled over a span of approximately fifteen hundred years by forty or more people few of whom ever met.

11) Comment by chem - 28/08/2012

This whole issue of science v religion is actually quite ridiculous. Science could not care less about religion because religion requires a slavish attitude, an absolute adherence to nonsensical stories put forth by ancient and primitive (by our standards) people trying to explain natural phenomena. Later, it was, and is, used to instill fear into people to control them. Science is interested in none of that. Some continue to ask the question, "what is life?" I'm not sure why that is even important. It is a red herring and nothing more. If it is to prove some silly notion that "scientists" do not know everything, than it is trying to "prove" something that every scientist readily admits. Science does not have the answers to everything. If that is, somehow, supposed to devalue the contributions science has made, it fails miserably. If the fact that science does not know everything is supposed to raise the preeminence of religion, than it has failed miserably at that also. With the advent of science and modernity, religion has fallen precipitously in importance and no longer takes center stage as it once did. Science and reason has relegated religion to the nonsensical status of fair tales. In the time before the emergence of science, it was easy to understand people believing in the supernatural, but today, it can only be called delusional.

12) Comment by Mildred Citizen - 28/08/2012

Science is science. You can worship your science, Dr. Houk and I'll worship my religion. You can state your views, I'll state mine. Our collective will determines social policy, so if more people feel like you do, that's how it is. If more people feel like I do, well then there you are. The line keeps moving and those of us who believe in God will keep pushing it to our end of the goal line. We have God on our side and you have Science. Good luck.

13) Comment by phil - 28/08/2012

Thanks for finally admitting what I have been saying all along. Science does not have all of the answers - period. Religion does has some answers but many do not believe those answers. However, to be fair I will say that neither religion nor science has all of the answers. When science dabbles into the unknown, scientists themselves often call that philosophy. Do you believe in philosophy or do you believe in religion/God? At least the New Testament has eye-witness accounts of what took place about just 2012 years ago. Philosophy often guesses at what took place millions and billions of years ago. By the way what exactly is a religious fundamentalist. Is that a person who believes in a fundamental principle of religion that God or a supreme being does really exist?

14) Comment by potkcalb - 28/08/2012

Phil no one claims to have all the answers, scientists least of all. Why do you keep repeating that? Because the answers to everything are not known does not invalidate science. Breakthroughs in scientific knowledge in recent years in every field seem little short of astounding. Look for example at Curiosity on Mars, at genetics, at cosmology, at biology, and at paleoanthropology to mention only a few areas of scientific inquiry. I marvel at how much has been learned in so short a time. How much can we learn, how much will we learn? Who knows? But why denigrate scientists or anyone else because they don't "know all the answers"? The only ones who claim to know all the answers are some religious fundamentalists. Why not focus your attacks on them.

15) Comment by phil - 27/08/2012

The reason that no one can answer my questions/statements is because they are mind bogglingly unanswerable.

16) Comment by phil - 27/08/2012

polktcalb - actually I have been on this blog as long as this blog has been here and I plan to stay. Thanks for noticing, though.

17) Comment by phil - 27/08/2012

poltkcalb - you just cannot admit that you do not have all of the answers so you just attempt to put me down because I will admit that I also do not know all of the answers. I see nothing funny at all in that situation. I think your attacks on me are really just making everyone see how narrow minded other people can be. I am still having fun here regardless.

18) Comment by phil - 27/08/2012

Once again people avoid my statements and questions and attack me personally because they have no real answers or facts to add. Scientists can define and describe life as they wish to but we still do not really know what life is. What actually goes away when we die? Is it our electricity? Is it more than just the energy in our bodies? You still do not know do you? Is it our soul? OK you give me a final answer! I will state here that I for one sure in the heck do not know.

19) Comment by chem - 27/08/2012

Life is difficult to define because there is such diversity. But in general, life entails the following: homeostasis, metabolism, growth, adaptation (evolution), a response to environment, reproduction, and organization. Not sure what the knowing of a firm definition of life has to do with anything. One-cell organisms, plants, animals are all quite different forms of life, but nonetheless, they have the aforementioned qualities in common. It is not as simple as defining a mathematical term or defining a word. Even a word can have different meanings depending on context. Asking for a definition of life is just a red herring.

20) Comment by potkcalb - 27/08/2012

Keep us laughing Phil. Don't stop now. The reason that no one can answer your questions/statements is that they are mind bogglingly goofy. You've been on these blogs for weeks, and you haven't been "right" about anything thus far. I'm still wondering if you are making this stuff up just to get attention.

21) Comment by phil - 27/08/2012

And exactly what is that way you see to bring people back to life? Plug them into a 110 VAC electric socket? Sorry to be so graphic , but we all know that is impossible to do! What exactly is life? You do not really know, do you.

22) Comment by phil - 27/08/2012

I enjoy reading the responses to my comments. My actual questions are hardly ever really addressed or answered because everyone here knows that there is no answer to my specific questions/statements. I already know what scientists have done, and I also know what they cannot do. Did you bring that dead person back to life yet? Then a few others here just attack me personally because they know I am right, but they have no real response. Once again, I am having too much fun here.

23) Comment by potkcalb - 27/08/2012

I'll second that quirk, especially since my computer was off line for the last 24 hours.

24) Comment by quirkmaguirk - 27/08/2012

Due to my work schedule there are many days where I can only check the comments sections once or twice during that day, so I avoid responding to many of the comments that I disagree with. It is nice when I go back to a thread at the end of the day, or even a few days latter, and find that chem or DMJ has represented my views well, without even knowing. Thanks guys/ gals, keep on spreading the love.

25) Comment by chem - 27/08/2012

hemogoblin: Hatred and bigotry are wrong, but religion suborns both. Again, all one has to do is read the holy books (bible and koran). I don't think those books, held up as moral acmes, can stand up to critical scrutiny. Even in the new testament, the book that everyone cherry picks passages to say it is full of love, states that homosexuals deserve death (Romans 1:24-32). Monogamous marriage is a religious artifact. If two people want to marry and live together in such an arrangement, there is nothing wrong with that. Nor do I think that there is anything inherently wrong with polygamy, so long as those involved enter into such a contract willingly and not under the proscriptions of a religion or government. ***** It certainly is helpful to have common rules, but that will never happen via religion. Each religion is absolutely sure that its own dogma is the true and only version. All others are infidels, heretics, sinners, and whatever other derogatory term can be used. Virtually every conflict on this planet today has to do with religious differences. And of course, all religions, especially the major monotheistic ones, have as their core doctrine that we should all look forward to the end of the world so that the truly chosen ones can ascend to heaven. ***** Altruism is something that relatively few people practice. Again, I do not think that religion is the answer. I'm not saying that there are no religious people who are altruistic, there are. There are just few of them. And if you look at the religious fundamentalists, especially politicians, they have nothing but disdain for people who are in need, through no fault of their own. ***** I suspect that religious people have more children because their is a proscription in their religions to "be fruitful and multiply." Atheists, obviously, don't have that as an issue. We have 7 billion people on this planet. At some point, there has to be a reduction or the planet will not be able to sustain all of the people. It is having a hard time right now.

26) Comment by hemogoblin - 26/08/2012

Chem, just do a search of the history of atheism and you will get some information on the topic. The term "Dark Ages" isn't used much now, since it gives an incorrect feel for the period between the Fall of the Roman Empire and the Renaissance. It wasn't really dark, although there were fewer writings compared with other times. Hatred, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness are always wrong, whether you are religious or an atheist. When I suggested looking at religion scientifically, it was to examine aspects of religion that benefit a culture. Does it help with survival to have monogamous marriage? Does it help with survival to have common rules? Does it help with survival to practice altruism? Why do religious people have more children than atheists?

27) Comment by chem - 26/08/2012

hemogoblin: Religion should indeed be looked at with logic and evidence, but that is not what happens, at least with the acolytes. When others look at religion with an unbiased eye, using evidence, logic, and reason, the faithful scream that religion cannot be viewed that way. They say it is a matter of "belief." So the very people that are caught up in that supernatural nonsense do want want anyone to examine their cults with the scientific method. ******* Why have religions survived? Until about two centuries ago, very few people stated their disbelief in religion out of fear for their lives. Monarchies and other despotic governments abounded, but in reality, they were theocracies. Beside every king or queen was a priest, or other clergy, to whisper in their ears what they should and should not proclaim. Any dissenters were quickly dispatched with torture or death. Is it any wonder that few were willing to espouse their disbelief? So the active opposition to religion is a relatively new phenomenon. And of course, the continued inculcation of children renews a new generation of fools. ****** Do religions contribute to the survival of a culture? Yes, to the religious culture. Religions still contribute to a lot of hate and bigotry. Religion, if it had its way, would continue to have people uneducated and ignorant. Look at what was called the Dark Ages. That was directly because of religious oppression/repression. Religion is still around, but I firmly believe we are looking at its last desperate gasps.

28) Comment by hemogoblin - 26/08/2012

Chem, it is important to approach religion with evidence and logic,too. Why have religions survived so well? Do they contribute to the survival of a culture?

29) Comment by chem - 26/08/2012

The search for truth is the very definition of science. Scientists have absolutely no problem with new evidence overturning part or all of a theory. The latter rarely happens. More often than not, it is a minor adjustment to a current theory. Scientists actively look for explanations that challenge the status quo. This is how we learn. Religion, on the other hand, will have none of that. The faithful do not seek new evidence and reject any and all evidence contrary to their beliefs. Therefore, acolytes do not seek the truth. As an example, if someone came up with a new theory in physics, backed by irrefutable evidence, that overturns everything that Einstein put forth, scientists would be ecstatic rather than dour. Regardless of the evidence and logic that shows religion is delusional, the apologists will never concede their irrational beliefs. That is the difference between science and religion.

30) Comment by ABayouBoy - 26/08/2012

C'mon, y'all know that all of us are just living in the "Matrix". Neo, follow the white rabbit....then, choose the red pill, or the blue pill.

31) Comment by nimby? - 26/08/2012

there are facts then there are opinions . facts can change , opinions usually don't ....

32) Comment by rgeraldwallace@cox.net - 26/08/2012

Houk uses a hook to attempt to airly gloss over points that do not support his position, i.e. that "adjusting" a theory as new information becomes available is what supporting a theory is all about. I don't think so, and pointing out how many different religions that there are just reinforces that point. Houk is hoist on his own petard.

33) Comment by hemogoblin - 26/08/2012

Exquisite Darwinian irony: religious people have more children than atheists

34) Comment by jedleland - 25/08/2012

thats true you can do the same thing with holy books and unlike movies you dont get to know who wrote them or when or where or how or why

35) Comment by bourbon-soda - 25/08/2012

You can make a movie show anything you want.

36) Comment by jedleland - 25/08/2012

Sick not suck

37) Comment by jedleland - 25/08/2012

there was a movie out couple of years back called black death about plague and middle ages. there is this one village where noone ever gets suck so thd church reckons witchcraft and sends in some bad guys to do some torturin and burnin fof jesus of course. theses villagers claim thry can raise the dead and show off a recent raised corpse to prove it but it aint pretty kinda like severely brain damaged even though they look healthy so a cautionary warning for rsising the dead. the christian torturers mean business and bring alonv a whole mobile torture kit to convert the heathens who arent following the rules and dying of plague like god wants them to phils type of people for sure

38) Comment by hemogoblin - 25/08/2012

phil, scientists have made proteins in a test tube. They have made complete viruses in a test tube. They have made vesicles from lipids that are much like cell membranes. The elements of life are just chemicals that follow ordinary chemical principles. Creating life in a test tube is just a problem that can be solved. Bringing the dead back to life--I could even see ways of doing that. I would rather scientists spend their time trying to find cures for diseases and ways to prevent age-related loss of function. Those problems may be easier to solve and more useful

39) Comment by jedleland - 25/08/2012

I give up its gotta be a good long sob then a pint of ics cream

40) Comment by jedleland - 25/08/2012

Sorry 8.3 beat me to it but phil man i mean cone on i dont know whether to cry or really cry

41) Comment by jedleland - 25/08/2012

Everyone here seems very intelligent? Yeah well maybe not everyone heres a clue read the post right before this one. bag of hammers man

42) Comment by 8.3 - 25/08/2012

phil you are thick as a brick and almost as intelligent

43) Comment by phil - 25/08/2012

Everyone here seems very intelligent - so place all of the elements/chemicals required for life in a test tube, shake well, and out comes a complete living human being. Hate to tell you scientists, it isn't going to happen. Also bring just one person who has died back to life since everyone here is qualified to define what life is and totally understands how to make something be alive. Heck you already have the body, so just breath some new life into it. Go ahead - just do it. That isn't going to happen either. You do not have to be a fundamentalist of anything to figure these basic things out.

44) Comment by Bouncer - 25/08/2012

Bighug has a good point. Trying to reason with a fundamentalist, whether he be Protestant, Catholic, Muslim, or take your pick, is literally like trying to get someone with a mental disorder off his meds to be sane, sensible, and rational. Yes, something approximating "English" comes out of his mouth, but it really makes very little sense. Science might not be completely "exact" at all times.....but it is precise in its method and it relies upon concrete testing, evidence, and retesting, as opposed to a belief in a god as the author of all things, which cannot offer testing, proof, or evidence but instead needs nothing more than the "belief" of one of its adherents.

45) Comment by DMJ - 25/08/2012

One of the best repudiations of "teach the controversy" I've heard yet. Great letter, Doctor Houk. And twinkiecat, I hate to break it to you...but you don't "know" god created the world. You THINK he did. Anyone who claims to know something he/she couldn't possibly know is lying or delusional. Sorry.

46) Comment by phil - 25/08/2012

I suppose we can say generally speaking that science is science and religion is religion. However to say that the branch of study we call science is an exact human-created endeavor is not true. A recent article in the Advocate entitled "What is Life" indicated that scientists cannot even come to a total agreement of what life really is. Scientists discuss the theory of evolution of life on earth and those discussions (and theories) seem to be based on a term called "life" that cannot even be defined by those same scientists. Perhaps we should ask those goat herders mentioned in a previous comment to tell us exactly what life is.

47) Comment by twinkie1cat - 25/08/2012

Louisiana politicians push to allow creationism to be taught as science in order to keep the Louisiana Family Forum, a huge source of Republican votes, on their side. Creationism is not science. Yes, a Christian I know that God created the world. But the facts appear to be that evolution was the tool God used to do so, tweaking the creation as needed to make it go in the direction God wanted. The tool is the science and the Bible is not a book of science. It is not a HOW book. It is a WHAT book.

48) Comment by bourbon-soda - 25/08/2012

A question that is usually unexamined in this ongoing discussion is, whose children are they? Does the state have the right to compel poor parents to have their children exposed to information that parents do not want them exposed to? There is usually a presumption that the children belong to the state.

49) Comment by potkcalb - 25/08/2012

I should have said "it is not within the province of the government to fund religious institutions" or any schools that inculcate religion.

50) Comment by potkcalb - 25/08/2012

bourbon-soda parents have the right, have always had the right, to send their children to schools of their choosing, religious or not. But public schools are government agencies funded by tax payers. Acknowledging separation of church and state It is not within the province of the government to fund religious institutions. Your letter is well stated Dr. Houk. One can only hope for the day when the ludicrous "Discovery Institute" will be exposed for the farce that it is.

51) Comment by Spudaroonski - 25/08/2012

Excellent letter Mr. Houk. Of course you must realize now that Piyush has moved you to the top of his excrement list. He'll either have you fired or try to exorcise those demons that have taken residency in your body.

52) Comment by bourbon-soda - 25/08/2012

A question that is usually unexamined in this ongoing discussion is, whose children are they? Does the state have the right to compel parents to have their children exposed to information that parents do not want them exposed to? There is usually a presumption that the children belong to the state.

53) Comment by Bighug - 25/08/2012

I agree with everything Dr. Houk says, but you can't argue with people who believe in a religion, whichever one it may be. They will accept what some ignorant goat-herder said 6,000 years ago over what learned scientists of today have discovered.