Our Views: Louisiana's Loch Ness mythology

Evolution is, of course, standard material for understanding biology, and it is taught in public schools and in parochial schools affiliated with mainstream churches.

But some of the schools that want to cash in on the state’s new tuition vouchers — really cash in, by expanding their tuition base considerably — not only teach creationist nonsense, but are proud of it.

“What they (students) are going to be getting financed with public money is phony science. They’re going to be getting religion instead of science,” said Barbara Forrest, a founder of the Louisiana Coalition for Science and a philosophy professor who has written about the clashes between religion and science.

The new state superintendent of schools, John White, has perfected the art of straddling this issue: He does not directly challenge the pro-creationism views of his master, Gov. Bobby Jindal, but tries to have it both ways.

Annual science tests required of all voucher students in the third through 11th grades will determine if children are getting the appropriate science education in the private school classrooms.

“If students are failing the test, we’re going to intervene, and the test measures evolution,” White said.

This appears to represent an evolution in White’s thinking: He earlier said that existing state law on standard textbooks would avoid this kind of embarrassment for voucher backers.

College student Zack Kopplin, an outspoken critic of teaching creationism in science classrooms, found at least 19 of the 119 mostly religious schools in the voucher program either promote creationism or teach with curricula from religious textbook publishers that are known to challenge Charles Darwin’s theory of evolution.

The schools cited by Kopplin’s research have been approved to take in more than 750 voucher students and receive more than $4 million in taxpayer funding, in the first round of announced voucher assignments for the 2012-13 school year.

Among the dubious assertions of creationist pseudo-science is that evolution is called into question by sightings of the Loch Ness monster, a “dinosaur” living in the modern age — according to those who believe in the Loch Ness myth.

This is not the first time that Louisiana has been made a laughingstock because of politicians cynically backing creationism dogma in schools.

A law mandating that “creationism” be given equal time in public school classrooms with evolution was struck down by the U.S. Supreme Court in 1987.

The state now has a Jindal-backed law that allows public school science teachers to use supplemental materials in their classrooms in addition to state-approved textbooks.

Guidelines adopted by the state education board ban the promotion of a religious doctrine in the supplemental materials, but without a specific ban on the teaching of creationism.

The state has no intention, apparently, of launching any serious investigation of the Loch Ness monster in school curriculums. Instead, it will pay and pay, for years, and — if students do poorly on science tests at some future date — the state Department of Education might raise the question of why mythology is part of a school’s curriculum.

“In the event that there is basic academic incompetence, the state (education) department can intervene,” White says. “The most effective way of testing all of this is to literally see what do the students know and what do they achieve, and we’re doing that through the state test.”

A more-effective way would be for the department to open its eyes to this kind of educational malpractice before children’s futures are endangered.


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Comments (42)


1) Comment by warreni - 17/08/2012

I think my comment was auto-deleted because I had the word "p*rn" in it. I give up, Advocate!

2) Comment by warreni - 17/08/2012

****Comment Removed for Violation of Terms of Use****

3) Comment by potkcalb - 17/08/2012

That creationists believe in pseudo-science is standard fare, but the Loch Ness monster, a "dinosaur" living in the modern age--now that's a real howler.Maybe it has a human rider. Does anyone remember Alley Oop and his dinosaur Dinny from the comic strip?

4) Comment by civitasiveritas - 17/08/2012

But pot, John White said that the "test" would measure this, I just want to know which one! "“In the event that there is basic academic incompetence, the state (education) department can intervene,” White says. “The most effective way of testing all of this is to literally see what do the students know and what do they achieve, and we’re doing that through the state test.”" Just show us the test John!

5) Comment by potkcalb - 17/08/2012

You have asked the right question civt-but don't expect a meaningful answer. By conflating pseudoscience with religion, thereby making a mockery of both religion and science, it is not possible to measure a student's understanding of evolution.

6) Comment by civitasiveritas - 17/08/2012

I would have thought someone from the Department of Education would have answered my earlier question. If there is no test that actually measures a student's understanding of evolution, does that mean White lies?

7) Comment by potkcalb - 15/08/2012

Whatnow I certainly believe that private parochial schools have the right to incorporate religion and religious teaching (as they have been doing) as long as they are not funded by tax payers of many different religions or of no religious persuasion. Are you familiar with the Supreme Court's ruling on separation of church and state or do you simply wish to ignore it?

8) Comment by Whatnow - 15/08/2012

@Potkcalb, it isn't prayer that Christian parents only want in their private schools. It is the Christian atmosphere, higher educational standards expected, and being with other Christians to live their daily lives uplifting each other. It is to get their kids away from the filthy acting students, lousy teachers, and substandard education that they get from public schools that hire and keep lousy teachers. It is the citizenry's choice and their right to chose what type of school their children go to. They pay taxes, too. If someone doesn't believe in religion in private parochial schools, they shouldn't send their kids there. It's really none of anyone else's business. So, what do some busy body people care that someone's child is going learn religion? I'll bet they don't care when children are sent by parents to schools that promote the gay agenda. OH, but Christians must be tolerant and accepting like atheists. What a bunch of hypocrites they are. It's called choice and no one is putting a gun to parents heads to send their kids to parochial schools. There are private schools that aren't religious. That's why Christians started their private schools. It gave them a choice. But, you want to take away that choice. Like I said, no one is putting a gun to their heads.

9) Comment by potkcalb - 15/08/2012

Stop misrepresenting ScotB. No one is advocating that religion be banned in public schools. That is a tiresome canard of religious fundamentalists who want religion to be an integral function of the schools. Prayer is legal in all schools as revealed by U.S. Department of Education guidelines. But religion or religious activities should not be organized, inculcated or given official approval or sanction by public or private schools or any other government agency funded by tax payers of many different religions or of no religious persuasion. And most certainly religion,however disguised in pseudoscientific terms, should not be infused into science curriculum, thereby making a mockery of both science and religion.

10) Comment by Whatnow - 15/08/2012

@ScotB, it's okay for our illuminated elite to be bigots against Christians. It's like saying that the only racists are whites. Now we are toxic. LOL!

11) Comment by ScotB - 14/08/2012

Poor, unfortunate, ill informed parents need the illuminated elite to tell them what is best for their children. And ban religion. Got it! We know where you stand, chem. Thanks for sharing.

12) Comment by chem - 14/08/2012

Sort it out? By the time Louisiana sorts anything out it will be too late for many kids. And just as bad, leaving the curriculum to parents? Many of them, unfortunately, don't have the expertise/knowledge to state what is correct. As I have said before, no school, religious, private, public, or home school, should teach anything but real science. Leave the superstitious nonsense to halloween night and the syfy channel. I would like to see religion treated as any other toxic substance -- ban it.

13) Comment by potkcalb - 14/08/2012

Believing that aliens have visited the earth is probably harmless. Infusing religion disguised as science into science curriculum is not. It makes a mockery of both religion and science.

14) Comment by ScotB - 14/08/2012

Whatever your views on evolution, the voucher system allows the parent of the child to choose the school. If enough parents refuse to spend their money on schools that teach material they find objectionable, the schools will either modify their curriculum or go out of business. That's the beauty of school choice. If this is an important issue to parents, it will sort itself out. I guess I would rather a child who believes in the Loch Ness monster than one who cannot functionally read, write, and perform basic math. A recent survey says 80 million Americans believe aliens visited Earth, so it will just be one more harmless and baseless belief we walk around with in our heads.

15) Comment by HRoark - 13/08/2012

Scrooge, I believe the correct and factual creation version you are seeking is that of the Bantu, who teach that Bumba, the one and true God, puked up everything. Unfortunately it is not taught in Louisiana schools (yet), but seems to be widely practiced.

16) Comment by prbeav - 13/08/2012

nimby, I really like your comment about parental involvement and similar comments made by others. One of the best adventures is to take children to a museum of natural history, such as the one in New York, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Museum_of_Natural_History#Bernard_and_Anne_Spitzer_Hall_of_Human_Origins , or to study natural history online with their children. For example, start at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution .

17) Comment by nimby? - 13/08/2012

what was fantasy is now real . what was fact yesterday is not today . " there will always be a great mystery " , tatanka-iyotanka ....

18) Comment by DMJ - 13/08/2012

Inherent in religion is the defeatist mindset- "We can never know...." This is why science and religion are fundamentally incompatible.

19) Comment by potkcalb - 13/08/2012

I think that the historic assumption that the universe, life, origins, are too mysterious to ever be understood is wearing thin. As chem has pointed out scientific knowledge of things recently assumed to be beyond human comprehension is increasing exponentially. There may always be limits as to how much we can know,but my guess is that much now considered to be beyond our grasp will become common knowledge. I sometime wonder if we are still in the throes of that "everything that can be invented has been invented" mind set.

20) Comment by nimby? - 13/08/2012

too many parents too busy to raise their own children . . involve , be a part of your childs' life . raise an intelligent kid , share with them , give them a full view of the world . teach them how to think , form their own opinions , engage , ask questions . a drop out rate above 30 percent ; can't read , write , speak , do simple math . considering this the evolution/creation argument isn't that important . as I have said a few times instead of arguing about where we came from we should worry more about where we are going ...

21) Comment by bourbon-soda - 13/08/2012

The "wall of separation" allows and requires you to decide that for yourself, without indoctrination at public expense.

22) Comment by Scrooge - 12/08/2012

I sure wouldn't want to be consigned to the depths of Hades on judgement day because I believed in the wrong version of creationism, will one of the enlightened ones tell me which version of creation and religion is the true one?

23) Comment by bourbon-soda - 12/08/2012

The prom committee vigilantes are abroad today.

24) Comment by krl777 - 12/08/2012

If students are forced to stay in school and be instructed against the religion of their parents in science classes, that can only be because the parents' religion stupidly decides that it can make proclamations on scientific matters. There's religion, and there's stupid religion. If your religion says that 2+2=5, then of course, math classes are going to be against your religion.

25) Comment by bourbon-soda - 12/08/2012

Creationism is a crock but it is diverting to watch the correct people in a swivet. 90% plus of people need knowledge of evolution neither to earn a living and stay off the dole nor to participate in the obligations of a citizen. With regard to the dole, it would be interesting to know how many believers in creationism support themselves off the dole compared to the more conventionally educated or uneducated remainder of the population. A huge percentage of children can't pass the pathetic LEAP, but (the royal) we are afraid we will be thwarted in force feeding trivia on the phylogenetic status of amphioxus to children whom the state forces to be in school and to be instructed against the religion of their parents. This, for some reason, is not an "establishment of religion." Popcorn, anyone?

26) Comment by prbeav - 12/08/2012

Traditionally, parents have the right to direct their children's understanding of each nature and the supernatural. My parents taught me to have faith in the supernatural--Christianity. I wish instead they had helped me focus on building my own character. >>>> Taking an example from Albert Einstein's 1941 speech, "The Laws of Physics and the Laws of Ethics," we can teach doctrine, like "Thou shalt not lie." Or we can discuss the principle of not lying so that we can communicate and minimize human pain and suffering, as we need to and want to. Not lying is especially important within families. >>>> Children sense credibility gaps at home when school mates giggle about Santa Clause. The stakes get higher with age. Eventually, children may sense that their entire upbringing was a lie. Then, they may still love their parents but detest what the parents taught.

27) Comment by chem - 12/08/2012

It’s been said that we, humans, know far less about the universe than what we actually know. I’m not sure if that is a true statement, because we have made great strides in our study of nature and the cosmos, and I don’t exactly know how much is out there. The planets, solar systems, stars, and galaxies all follow the laws of physics. There are certainly phenomena out there that we have not yet encountered, but I am sure that it can all be explained by current laws or with minor tweaking. In the 20th century, science advanced dramatically -- exponentially -- compared to the previous centuries. People have tried to devise experiments to show that established scientific laws are wrong and have failed. Likewise, no natural phenomenon has yet to overturn the laws of physics. The laws are so good that they have foretold of certain things before they were discovered, for example, black holes and subatomic particles. That is the strength of science. Is science infallible? Of course not. But unlike the religious faithful, scientist accept findings that are contrary to current laws and tweak the laws if need be. Religious apologists steadfastly maintain their delusional thinking about gods, heaven, angels, and all of the other nonsense spewed forth from their “holy books.” If only they would open their minds, they would see a wondrous world, full of amazing things that require no supernatural beings, nor all of the baggage that comes with belief in such silly stories.

28) Comment by Whatnow - 12/08/2012

Much more reason to be in awe of the God which they believe created it? Yes, we are. More so than any man's thinking. http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/articles/article/guybrandoncolumn1.htm/

29) Comment by krl777 - 12/08/2012

I endorse chem's point that public money should not be used in any way, directly or indirectly, to teach a fake alternative "science", not accepted by actual scientists, in the science classroom. But this isn't a religious vs anti-religious view. Plenty of Christians embrace the findings of modern science. Here is one reason, which cadge from a post I made on another thread today. It is Sunday, and Christian fundamentalists will have gone to Church today, and for one brief hour, contemplated their role in a community and in the universe, something bigger than our humdrum, everyday lives. That's a good thing. But it is ultimately cheapened by anti-evolutionary ideology. The real goal of anti-evolution Christians is to keep the universe small, cozy and easily comprehended -- some 6000 years old, and therefore no more than 6000 light-years across, with no amazing, confounding emergence of higher-order properties (such as life and consciousness) from mere inanimate matter. The awe with which they are thereby left is not the awe a scientist has for a truly magnificent universe, but rather the awe for a puny, cheap universe, with most of the awe reserved for a cheap, tyrant God. A Christian who contemplates the findings of modern science will find much more to be in awe about than the shabby little universe of the fundamentalist, and much more reason to be in awe of the God which they believe created it. I hope that fundamentalists will realize that they are cheating themselves, as well as their children, out of a proper understanding of the magnificence of the universe.

30) Comment by Scrooge - 12/08/2012

Now I am confused, which version of creationism is the correct one? The 6000 year existence of the universe theory, intelligent design, or some other version? Sure wouldn' t want Louisiana kids to be taught the wrong version, they would appear ignorant when dealing people from other states and countries of the world. The DOE needs a supervisor of creationism to determine the correct version of the creation of the universe so that Louisiana's intellectual prowess will not be suspect. .

31) Comment by chem - 12/08/2012

No school, public, religious, or otherwise, should teach anything other than real science, not the ridiculous dogma of some cult. Inculcating children into a religion is another form of child abuse. It warps their impressionable minds and ruins them for the rest of their life, no being able to get their heads out of their rear to see the truth that is out there. Religion should be strictly kept within the bounds of a church, temple, etc. Parents, trying to brainwash their children with such drivel should face sanctions just as if they were beating them with a 2x4. Religion needs to be put in its place and kept out of public discourse and policy.

32) Comment by redstickhornet - 12/08/2012

@RG Sanders... Implying that people of a certain political stripe are less intelligent... your words: "lack of intellectual firepower" is an attack also. I do not always agree with people on the left or on the right. I don't give a fig if kids go to schools with a religious mission or theme. I attended Catholic schools myself. What I do care about is that the education tax dollars I voted to pay in B.R. should go primarily to schools implementing a world class curriculum: public, charter, or voucher. The (Public) Blue Ribbon School of Excellence around the corner from my house is excellent and does not deserve to see one dime of its funding leeched for any political reason. Louisiana needs more schools featuring WORLD CLASS curricula especially in MATH AND SCIENCE. I feel extremely passionate about that. Gov. Jindal's kids go to such a school. The LSU Lab school features an International Baccalaureate program. We're going to intervene after the spring testing indicates they are not getting an adequate Science education? Are they serious? I thought this whole program was about keeping kids from wasting another year, semester, or even another day in schools not equipped to prepare them to compete in a global economy. The LA DOE's own words indicate that they'll do something after there is a problem, rather than require that all schools demonstrate the rigor and relevance of their science curricula up front, before they collect our cash...The State DOE can get in those voucher schools with the kind of Science Pre, Post, and Mid year tests administered at my child's school. They DO NOT have to wait until scores come back in May 2013 to find out what is or isn't being taught in the private school. A Pre Test can easily establish how much science the children know already when they enter the voucher program. Shouldn't they be gathering this kind of data anyway?

33) Comment by potkcalb - 12/08/2012

Yes it most certainly does matter if tax funded schools are infusing pseudoscience (creationism) into science curricula thereby making a mockery of both religion and science.

34) Comment by Whatnow - 12/08/2012

@RGSanders, Well said. Are insults and name calling a proper substitute for persuasive, civil argument? It's clear that many people don't care at all. They don't really care about other people. They don't really care about the destruction of ignorance or the enlightenment of the opposition. They just get cheap thrills by throwing around juvenile or crass insults on those with whom they disagree. But is that a good strategy to persuade someone else to assimilate your point of view? Should you expect someone to suddenly change their mind about any issue after you deliberately berate or shame them? I may be crazy, but I think it's a terrible method. If you go around being rude to other people, they are not going to respond positively to future interactions with you. Human nature being what it is, people will size up the group that you represent from your individual behavior. If you're rude, you make all others that share your beliefs look badly.

35) Comment by RGSanders - 12/08/2012

Those on the anti-voucher side (the left, in general) have to resort to personal insults, ad hominems & the like-I won't speak extensively to the "whys" of this modality, only that it appears a lack of intellectual firepower may be the cause. In typical Advocate fashion, their "Views" embrace this approach and, at the same time as insulting the majority of the community they serve, the Ed staff appears none-the-brighter. Nowhere is this more evident than the voucher issue, where some simple facts cast sunshine on the whole thing. To wit: 1) Some schools, enrolling voucher students, embrace the teaching of creationism. So what? As long as those students can successfully pass the state-mandated proficiency tests, in the subjects required, does it matter? I contend "no," as the child had demonstrated that he or she is "competent" (at least, according to the State of Louisiana-that may be an entirely different argument); 2) Until parents who opt to send their child or children to private or parochial schools are relieved of their obligations to support "public" education with tax dollars, the rights of those parents carry as much weight & import as those who do NOT choose this route. "Your" tax dollars are no more valuable than "mine," "his," "hers," "ours," or "theirs." And finally, 3) Through the voucher program, the State of Louisiana is NOT supporting, endorsing or sanctioning the teaching of any school--private, parochial, charter, etc.--the State of Louisiana is supporting the STUDENT by tasking tax dollars (a portion of that BELONGING to that student's parents) to the education of that STUDENT. If "public education" is a "right," than the State has an obligation to fulfill with the highest & best use of tax dollars available. And remember, those aren't "your" tax dollars (keep in mind--Obama said you didn't build that). The "creationism" cry is a specious argument--put forward & endorsed by an agenda-driven publication and vociferously supported by those with the same agenda.

36) Comment by DMJ - 12/08/2012

Yeah, kids...open your minds to nonsense. Go ahead and let it seep in. What a joke. This reminds me of when I used to live in Mississippi...when co-workers of mine told me they didn't believe in evolution (because of the Bible) and then looked at me as if I was the idiot, oblivious, as always, to the irony. I tried to explain to them the basic premise (apparently, they had never heard it) and it was as if I was telling someone that bad things were caused by a talking snake. It'd be funny if it weren't so weird and pathetic. If public money is to be funneled towards religious schools (an outrage unto itself) then these religious schools need to adjust their curriculum to where it doesn't include unscientific mythology and straight-up intellectual garbage.

37) Comment by rgeraldwallace@cox.net - 12/08/2012

I hope that you're not suggesting that students have closed minds to knowledge; where would mankind be if that were the norm? Questioning the status quo is what makes for progress, and blindly accepting whatever the consensus decrees is not a virtue as has been shown countless times over our history. So far Science has not shown even one example of how a species transformed from one thing to another, and it hasn't been able to explain why it is that only mankind is sentient. Looking at fossils is intesting, but making fantastic leaps of suposition from these observations and then demanding that they be accepted as pure fact is nonsense.

38) Comment by prbeav - 12/08/2012

I wanted to know the names of schools involved, so Googled, "Lock Ness Monstor." Good ole' Google added "Louisiana," and found this URL from June 26: http://rt.com/usa/news/loch-ness-monster-louisiana-creationism-evolution-790/ , which identifies Eternity Christian Academy. >>>> It is outrageous that in Louisiana I can pass every house of worship and not enter but cannot keep my tax money out of the hands of Christian businesses. >>>> Years ago, I participated in a public study regarding attitudes toward vouchers and was one of two in thirty who spoke against it. For decades I have been alarmed at the harm Christianity has done to the rule of law.

39) Comment by civitasiveritas - 12/08/2012

I am curious. Could John White please provide some examples of the tests given by the state that include evolution? He says "the test" measures evolution. Which test?

40) Comment by potkcalb - 12/08/2012

The issue here is that tax payers of many different religions or of no religious persuasion should not fund schools, public or parochial, that sanction religious practices or that infuse pseudoscience disguised as religion into science classes.This should not be confused with the canard of some religious fundamentalists that children cannot pray in the schools. Prayer is legal in all schools as revealed by U.S.Department of Education guidelines on school prayer.

41) Comment by Whatnow - 12/08/2012

If you don't want religion, don't go to parochial schools. It's called choice. Does the Advocate propose taking that freedom of choice away? They blatantly do.

42) Comment by Chucky - 11/08/2012

2012 and we are teaching myth.