Letters: Government not the real enemy

It’s obvious that there are many people out there who hate “government,” especially the federal government, with a passion. As Americans, we pride ourselves on rugged individualism. The pioneer spirit and as captains of our own destiny. Many government detractors cite government inefficiency as their primary reason for their disdain.

No, government doesn’t bat 1.000. But then some major league hitters are paid $10 million a year and only hit .250. Major league pitching might have something to do with that. Human nature, political fights for power and complex problems might have something to do with government’s batting average.

Speaking of human nature, we live in a state with a football coach who has averaged 10.7 wins a year in the past seven seasons and against some pretty tough competition. Still, Coach Les Miles has his detractors. Heck, the Israelites were complaining to Moses within days of being led out of slavery from the Egyptians.

Government is people, so don’t be so human when it falls short.

Alex Chapman

Lawyer

Ville Platte

Comments

1) Comment by Whatnow - 23/07/2012

@chem, the difference is that you don't even touch on the good things. You only harp on what you perceive as bad. War, crime and hatred does not come from Christianity. It comes from being man. Paul even crucified Christians, but he was forgiven once he accepted Christ as his savior. You cannot just pick out the bad things either, Chem. That's why we study the Bible. To learn the reasons things were done for those times. Seek and you shall find. But, you have to listen to the answers and not just ask the questions.

2) Comment by Fjsteven - 22/07/2012

Lots of people quote scripture. Who cares, that doesn't make someone a Christian. Hitler murdered Christians and threw them in the concentration camps. He was a Darwinist and an occultist which is the antithesis of Christianity. Your information is so off base. Jesus taught that his true disciples would be recognized by their fruit. Hitler didn't quite pass Jesus' test, but he did follow Darwinism to its core and try to accelerate the process of natural selection by trying to eliminate the weak, handicapped, and all those that didn't worship the state. That's why he hated Christians because their allegiance was to Christ over the NAZI party. I dont quite understand why you have such a hatred toward Christians and those of faith. I became a Christian in my late college years primarily because I was so impressed by the joy, kindness, charitable good works and peace that I observed in the Christian community. The "christian" caricatures that you and your ilk use to describe Christians on this web site so frequently don't resemble any of the Christians throughout the country and the world that I've ever met. You guys say that Christians want to subjugate women, and create a theocracy, etc. that's funny, because I've been part of the Christian community for 20 years and I don't know what you're talking about. Sure, every community has their fringe, but they certainly aren't representative of the whole.

3) Comment by chem - 22/07/2012

Oh, and regarding Hitler, he was indeed raised as a christian and often quoted scripture. Now, he may not be your cup of tea as far as a christian goes, but nonetheless, he was one and acquired his hatred of others because of those teachings.

4) Comment by chem - 22/07/2012

Whatnow: But are you not doing the same thing of which you accuse me? That is, you want to disregard all of the immoral, evil things in the bible, things that were taught and done by your god, and just pick out some of the good things. I don't understand how the god of the old testament is different from the one in the new testament. Are they not one and the same? Or did the new testament god have some sort of epiphany and realize that all of that hate and genocide was wrong? If that's the case, then it certainly isn't a "perfect" god that can make no mistake. No, no, my friends, you have to take the bad with the good, and there is far too much wrong with religions for me to accept. If everyone thought and acted the same it would be a boring world. That depends on what everyone thought. Personally, I would not mind boring if it meant no more war, crime, and hatred.

5) Comment by Whatnow - 22/07/2012

Chem, you are so wrong. Hilter "said" he was a Christian. He clearly was not since he didn't appreciate the gift of life for others. That's not a Christian. You are also wrong to totally focus your disregard for the Bible on the Old Testament which is a lot of Jewish law according to the Torah. You pick and choose without knowing the background. The word "Christian" came from the word "Christ". Did Christ teach killing non-believers? No, he did not. He came to show us the way to everlasting life with our creator and how to treat others. He didn't want us to waste time on non-believers. He wants us to tell others that want to know about salvation. He didn't teach hate. Just because some people profess to be Christians, it doesn't make it so. Only those who try to walk in the teachings of Jesus are "Christians". There is a difference. Any Christian who advocates violence to win his war, is off track and letting the sin of human passion and of man, that we are all guilty of, make his decisions. I just know that if a person like this is truly sorry and repentant, he will receive forgiveness and Christ will take that sin from him so that he will have life everlasting. Now, why does that seem to frighten you? And why do you care? If every person in this world all thought and acted the same, it sure would be a boring world, now wouldn't it. We might as be computers all attached to the same mainframe.

6) Comment by chem - 22/07/2012

Hitler was a christian. And there is a Darwinian basis for morality. All anyone has to do is look it up. well, I don't hate people because of there color or sexual orientation, nor do I subjugate women. I do not teach that killing is ok as long as it is against nonbelievers. Religion teaches all of these things. It says so in the bible and koran. you can dance around it all you want, but it is right there in those books. And there isn't two cents of difference between the christian and islamic gods. Afterall, the god of the bible killed everyone in the world except noah and a few others. Yea, that is a really nice moral lesson.

7) Comment by Fjsteven - 22/07/2012

All religions aren't the same. Only a trivial amount of research would reveal this truth. The differences between the God of Islam are and Christianity are so vast that it isn't even worth discussing. You like to pretend that you're an intellectual but your rants reveal your ignorance concerning fundamental basics regarding Christianity. Also, nice try in your attempt to dismiss the murder of 100 million people by atheist dictators with a stroke of a pen. Also, you failed to answer the question regarding your ability to make any moral judgements at all. Why are you, a product of naturalistic Darwinism, concerned about things like murder, wars, human sacrifice, intolerance, bigotry, etc. According to an atheistic naturalistic view of the universe, matter is the only thing that exists and the only ethic that exists is self interest and survival of the fittest. In the Darwinian ethic it is natural and not immoral at all for one creature to destroy another creature if it allows the destroyer to survive. Since humans are evolved animals who are you to pass any moral judgements at all? Why is murder wrong according to your world view? The truth is that you have a moral conscience because the God that you despise placed it there. Darwinian evolution doesn't have an explanation for why you have morality. You have failed in keeping the moral code that is part of your conscience (just like me and every other human being), and that is why you try and erase God from your life. You revealed yourself and the morality of secular Darwinism when you wished for the extinction of Christians and religious people everywhere in your first post. Sounds a lot like Chairman Mao, Lenin, Stalin, Pol pot, and another Darwinist, Adolf Hitler, to me. Are you sure that there's no connection between secular humanism and genocide?

8) Comment by chem - 22/07/2012

Virtually all religions are the same. Just a few minor points here and there that are different. All of the so-called christian relgions and muslim religions are almost identical. The "holy books" for each are filled with hate, bigotry, torture, and murder. All is condoned in the name of "God." That is why it is ok to hate blacks, gays, women, and anyone else who doesn't fall into the definition of "worthy" in these so called holy books. Stalin and Pol Pot did not massacre people in the name of atheism. They killed people based on their perverted view of a political system. On the other hand, history, and currently, is full of attrocities carried out in the name of religion. The Incas sacrificed people for their religion, as was true of the Mayans and Aztecs. The India Thuggee sect sacrificed people for Kali. Christians had their Crusades, the Inquisition, the witch trials, and many other wonderful moments based on religion. In Europe, the Anabaptists were slaughtered by catholics and protestants because of religion. Look at Northern Ireland. American fundamenalists have killed and terrorized good people associated with abortion clinics, all in the name of religion. Currently, in the Middle East, war continues based on religion, and not just with Western religions, but between different islamic sects. The bible and koran tells people that it is ok to kill nonbelievers. The god of the bible was vicious, hateful, jealous, and murderous. Yea, that's some morality. Kids today are still being indoctrinated into that hateful way of thinking and they will grow up to be bigoted hateful adults, fearful of anything that is different or that doesn't measure up to "their" religious view. I know of no instance where attrocities were committed in the name of atheism. But there is an almost unending list of those things that were committed in the name of religion. I'll take my secular morality any day over the hateful teachings of religion.

9) Comment by Fjsteven - 21/07/2012

Yes Chem, don't offer one legitimate argument. Just personal vitriolic attacks. Oh if we could only live under a secular humanist atheistic government and enjoy the peaceful utopia that was enjoyed by the 100 million exterminated under chairman Mao, Lenin, Stalin and Pol Pot. Those societies were so wonderful and everyone enjoyed so much freedom and equality unlike the oppressive horrible intolerant constitutional capitalist republic that was founded by Deists, creationists and Christians. Question for you Chem, you seem to have your own set of moral values and a conscience. I'm curious as to know where this came from under naturalistic evolutionary processes. The only ethic that is real in a secular humanist worldview is survival of the fittest. Morality, doesn't always provide advantage and oftentimes works against self interest. Why do you continue to form moral judgements? Chemicals and matter don't care about "peace" on earth. Why do you?

10) Comment by chem - 21/07/2012

Another ridiculous rant from the wacko fundamentalist sect. Fortunately, people like fjsteven are going the way of the dinosaurs, albeit too slowly for me. There is a steady rise of secular humanism in the world. I just wish that both processes were much faster. The sooner the world is rid of religious nuts, the quicker we will have peace on Earth.

11) Comment by Fjsteven - 21/07/2012

dmj. you say you don't know any liberals who want others to do their thinking for them. this is laughable on its face. Why, then, do liberals oppose the privatization of social security? I remember hearing Dick Gebhardt and Tom Daschle say years ago in response to Bush's proposal to allow citizens to invest 2% of their SS into a private account that it would lead to disasters because the American people aren't smart enough to invest their own money, and that society would implode if government wasn't in charge or our retirement. This is one example of thousands. You also said, where would people go if government wasn't there to protect them? There was once a time in this nation when people went to their families, friends, neighbhors, community and churches. It was pretty effective, because those the people in need were held accountable by people that knew them. Now, since Americans are taxed out the butt, most families have two working parents, and less disposable income left over to offer to charities and churches since the bureacrats in Washington can't stop spending our money to buy votes. I'm not surprised you asked this question, though, as liberals notoriously give tiny percentages of their income to charity compared to conservatives (Just ask Joe Biden, Al Gore, etc.) since you are happy to have govt. take other peoples money to fund your pet causes and mollify your guilty conscience. You also charge that conservatives are hypocritcal because they want government to limit abortion or prevent gay marriage. Alll conservatives would agree that federal and state government have legitimate functions as defined by the constitution. Please read the preamble to the US constitution here. We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. Notice that it is the job of the federal government to "secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity". Do you know what Posterity means DMJ? It means future, unborn children. It is also a legitimate function of local, state and federal government to make laws that make it illegal for one human to murder another human being. After all, a dead person certainly can't pursue happiness as guaranteed by the constitution. Therefore, since children in the womb are innocent human beings, why shouldn't they be protected by government from being murdered like all other human beings? Please answer this question DMJ, "It is okay to murder a baby in the womb under these circumstances?" Other than a situation in which the Mother's physical life is endangered by the pregnancy, I'm hard pressed to come up with other circumstances. What is your answer? It seems to me that the liberals are the hypocrites when it comes to abortion. I thought liberals loved to protect the downtrodden, oppressed and innocent, but they are all willing to slaughter the most innocent among us (over 40,000,000 dead), and the main reason is usually for birth control or because the unwanted child would pose an economic hardship on the mother. If conservatives thought like liberals thought, then it would be okay to murder anyone that created a hardship in my life. Lastly, concerning gay marriage. Conservatives believe that the family is the cornerstone of western civilization and that marriage between a man and a woman has been the historical definition of marriage since the creation of Judaism. Conservatives also believe that there are societal and moral norms that are trascendent that should be endorsed and upheld by government. Conservatives want limited government, not anarchy. And one of the roles of government is to have laws in place that reflect these transcendant values. I would suspect that you would agree with this point even if you don't want to admit it. Or do you believe that government should have no oversite regarding social behavior? Do you believe that polygamy should be legal? What about beastiality? What about public nudity or drunkeness? Do you believe that people should be allowed to engage in orgies in a public square? If you answer no to these questions then you also believe that government has a role to moderate social behavior. Many, conservatives, however, believe that this issue should be handled by the states and not the federal government (which happens to be my position). Lastly, conservatives could care less what private citizens do in their own bedroom, but the liberal progressives and gay activists are the ones that have used the courts and government intervention to overturn the historical definition of marriage that has been in place for thousands of years. Every time this has been put to a vote at the local level, the traditional marriage definition has been upheld, then the activists petition the courts to overturn the will of their fellow citizens. And please don't try to make the analogy that the fight for gay marriage is akin to the civil rights movement. Skin color is an immutable characteristic. gay sex is a chosen behaviour. The black community doesn't even agree with that analogy as their majorities always vote in favor of traditional marriage when it is on the ballot.

12) Comment by CountryAttorney - 20/07/2012

@chem: ...and the never-ending greediness of those who benefit from our kindness. You can call me greedy all you want, but the fact of the matter is that I worked for what I have. So crucify me for wanting to keep what I have EARNED rather than watching it be wasted and given to those who have chosen not to help themselves by politicians using it to buy votes.

13) Comment by chem - 20/07/2012

Ah, the milk of human kindness.

14) Comment by CountryAttorney - 20/07/2012

I don't mind giving a man a hand when he's in need. I do mind giving money who are too proud to work some jobs. If you need government assistance, show up to litter detail 20 hours a week and either go to job training or fill out job applications the other 20 hours. If you're unable to work because of some LEGITIMATE medical condition, you're obviously in need and I don't mind supporting you for basic needs.

15) Comment by Sandy - 20/07/2012

Everybody does need government. We just don't need nearly as much of it as we have.

16) Comment by nimby? - 20/07/2012

there are reasons then there are excuses . do liberals assume that those with conservative values are automatically puppets of fox and am radio ? sorry but there are many liberal sheep in search of cause du jour" . or maybe they're just pretend , flavor of the week . same with the right , pretend conservatives . arrogance or ignorance ?

17) Comment by warreni - 20/07/2012

"Don't Tread On Me And Impose the Edicts of My Religion on Everyone."

18) Comment by DMJ - 20/07/2012

Funny...I've yet to meet a single fellow progressive liberal who wants someone else to do their thinking for them. Is this really what conservatives think of liberals? How stupid. Stop listening to AM Radio or Walton and Johnston or whoever told you guys that. They're idiots and they don't know what they're talking about. As far as the whole "I don't want my tax dollars going to those who don't work and are lazy"... No kidding. Who does? But what I really don't want is a government that turns its back on those in need. I mean...what if I (or you) found myself down on my luck and no where to turn to? I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt instead of simply assuming that those who get government assistance are lazy con artists. But hey...that's just me. And speaking of not liking "big government"...how do freedom-loving conservatives square their anti-gay marriage and anti-abortion positions with their Don't Tread on Me slogans they love to say? It seems obviously hypocritical to me...

19) Comment by nimby? - 20/07/2012

chem , I believe most comments of that nature refer to those physically/mentally able who chose not to accept their responsibilities as an adult ; chose to quit school , there by limiting employment opportunities , or those not considering a job . there are reasons then there are excuses ...

20) Comment by chem - 20/07/2012

I still read the comments of some on this board that have the mentality that: Oh, just work harder and get a better job. If it were only that easy. Society is a complex organism and rarely or things just black and white. There are often many shades of gray. The millions thrown out of work by the recession of '07 have not found work equal to the jobs lost. Most are making half or less of what they made before. They are now working two or three jobs trying to make ends meet. So it is wrong and heartless to say to these people to quit whining and pull yourself up by your bootstraps.

21) Comment by Scrooge - 19/07/2012

So 0% taxes will mean no unemployment? What is a bit puzzling is the politicians who fanatically advocate inconsequential government yet are so desperate to be part of it and to be consequential. If a large majority people in Louisiana became fanatical advocates of big government, wonder many of the self -righteous cons would quickly and suddenly come out of the closet as self-righteous libs, Jindal included? Its about the human need for power and domination over others, pure and simple. Unfortunately, all the grubbing and grasping for riches will do nothing to change the appointed day and hour. Reminds of the lizards who proudly puff out their red chests, they have no use for government. .

22) Comment by Whatnow - 19/07/2012

Lawmakers: GSA spent $270K on another event: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0712/78732.html And you wonder, Mr. Chapman, why the people are mad at the "government". Waste, Waste, Waste! And it's sad that we are finding out more and more through the internet. It's time to clean up our government. When they only care about their benefits instead of "the people", it's time to show them the door. And they want to tax people more??? How can they justify raising taxes with this kind of abuse happening? Do they only want to tax the rich so that they can share the same lifestyle? You said, " Many government detractors cite government inefficiency as their primary reason for their disdain." Darn tootin! And rightly so. It's become outrageous and it's become more so every single day! And Obama is right at the top with so many of the Green company's going bankrupt these days. Waste left and right. Cronyism left and right.

23) Comment by InPVille - 19/07/2012

@DMJ: Bush DID lie...and people DID die. This is a fact. And Cindy Shehan is not a sitting member of congress, a state's governor or a member of the press. She was a private citizen whose son was killed in Bush's illegal war. Bush is lucky not to be in jail." -[**]- It is also a fact that the first President Bush, President Bill Clinton, politicians of both parties, and daily media reports for more than a decade all created the idea of Iraq WMD and their dangers. A number of other nations were also complicit in the perceived reality. Both houses of the U.S. Congress voted to authorize and fund action in Afghanistan and in Iraq. This is what is required in our constitution under Article 1, Section 8. So it was legal. On Iraq House(Aye R215/D82 & Nay R6/D126) Senate(Aye R48/D29 & Nay R1/D21). The Afghanistan vote was even more lopsided. I would probably agree with you that Iraq could have been differently handled. However, Saddam had long before succeeded in corrupting the U.N. Oil For Foods Program(redirecting the money to build numerous palaces for his personal use) and the embargo was in the process of coming apart. But even if we had the knowledge how to stabilize the country post taking out Saddam(which we don't), we were never going to stay with it long enough for that to happen. - - - Last time I looked you didn't have to hold a political office or a part of the media in order to disrespect a president. It certainly wasn't in the comment I originally responded to.

24) Comment by GoldenSage - 19/07/2012

It is not "government" people don't like, it is the politicians people don't like. If people didn't like the government, then we would have had another revolution by now. People don't like "big" government which wants to run people's lives; don't like "big" government politicians who try to manhandle the citizens and take away their freedoms; don't like "progressives" who think The People can't think for themselves, that The People need leaders like Soros, Obama, Nancy and Harry to think for them, they want puppets, they want people who can't think for themselves. So basically, people don't like politicians and government people who don't like The People, who think of The People as inferiors and not equals...this includes the high-mighty Obama and Michelle. Amazing how rich and royal Democrats are never thought of as elites, but yet, are suppose to be so intellectual and sophisticated, but never as the dumb moneygrubbers they are. These high rich Democrats have NO class, only puppets who bow to their every wishes.

25) Comment by CountryAttorney - 19/07/2012

@DMJ: "They don't make enough money to qualify to pay federal income taxes." I didn't realize that one must "qualify" to pay federal income taxes. As a matter of fact, I think anyone can voluntarily write a check (if it doesn't bounce) to the IRS at any time. You make it sound as though those 40% are upset that they didn't make the cut, and maybe they are. I know I wouldn't hate it if I didn't "qualify." But if they're upset about not making the team, maybe they can work a little harder, take up a decent and well paying trade or job. That's what I did, and let me tell you, what you pay in taxes is not worth the benefits you receive. The truth of the matter is that the more taxes you pay, the smaller your return on those taxes, and the opposite is true. Yes, we get roads and defense and police and fire protection, but those are things that all of us get. We don't get the free food, we have to pay for our housing, we don't go to college for little or no tuition, etc. We pay taxes because we make money, and we make money because we worked hard. Yet somehow those who benefit from my hard work still want more. That's not much of an incentive for me to keep working harder and harder just to maintain my current lifestyle, only to improve the lifestyle of those who don't. P.S. Sorry for coming down on you so hard today...its just been one of those weeks. I'm sure you're a fine fellow. I just happen to disagree with your viewpoints.

26) Comment by Whatnow - 19/07/2012

Mr. Chapman, in my mind, they make themselves the enemy. http://www.fns.usda.gov/cga/FactSheets/reaching.htm AND http://dailycaller.com/2012/07/19/usda-partnering-with-mexico-to-boost-food-stamp-participation/

27) Comment by Whatnow - 19/07/2012

@DMJ, and of course, being who you are, you WOULD go that route. Just shows what kind of person you really are. So sad....

28) Comment by DMJ - 19/07/2012

You're right. I'm so ashamed. Still...someone smarter than me once said, "The only appropriate response to the ridiculous is ridicule."

29) Comment by Whatnow - 19/07/2012

@DMJ, you do constantly belittle others' opinions. And you do it with a mean spirit. You don't even see it, do you? Of course, you don't. You enjoy acting like a spider waiting to attack. So sad....

30) Comment by Whatnow - 19/07/2012

gvm, I don't know where you live, and you don't know me and my relationships with all the people in my area, but we all like each other and treat each other with respect and we have no problems. Race is not even a factor in our lives. We help each other and are friends. We all grew up together. Our kids grew up together and stand up for each other. I didn't read everyday about race problems like I do now. Well, maybe in the inner cities. Maybe if the race baiters would shut up and quit stirring the pot, the stink would stop. You are going to find racists on both sides of the coin, but that is coming from pure ignorance and hate. Why give those types the time of day?

31) Comment by nimby? - 19/07/2012

still trying to figure out "left wingers" and their fascination with the Fox news boogey man scenario . strange that more watch fox than msnbc . getting tired of the childish "he said she said" . and yes everyone needs the government , just some less than others , while some have been depending on it for several generations .....

32) Comment by chem - 19/07/2012

DMJ: Thanks for correcting me. I forgot about Dean in '04. My point though was that shortly after Obama was elected, the "take our country back" mantra began. Regarding disrespect, private citizens have the right, within our laws, to say whatever about public officials. But I am referring to the sitting congressman that yelled out "you lie" during a speech before joint congress. The sitting members of congress stating that he was not born in the U.S., despite Hawaii having said so. A governor shaking her finger at him at the airport. That type of disrespect is unprecedented. Regarding terrorists, I should have been clearer. I was referring to the top people in the terrorist organizations, including the number one guy, bin laden. I know that right- wingers hate that he was killed on Obama's watch, but it is just another moment in his presidency that the right wing wackos ignore. One can go through any administrations record and find things that did not go well or could have been done better. But as I said before, Obama's record is very much middle of the road, and in fact, on some issues, more to the right than I care for. For example, his continuation and support of the laws that came into being after 9/11.

33) Comment by brhope - 19/07/2012

It seems the right wing is using similar tactics as a lot of religions in the south use. Scare you into thinking the world is bad and full of evil things, and if you follow me and my words, you will be safe from the harm. Come on right wingers. Wake up and realize that all the right is doing is scaring you into believing they have all the answers. O and stop watching Fox news, and maybe you'll see that this government is not all that bad. Was it the Bush admin. that created the largest expansion of government with Homeland Security?

34) Comment by DMJ - 19/07/2012

It's easier to hate government than to admit we all need it and benefit from it. When government works, it's silent, but when it errs, it's a giant "I told you so moment." Think about it... Our food is largely safe to eat. We have clean air and water standards. We have fuel efficiency standards. We have interstates and air traffic controllers. We have the Center for Disease Control. But...we also have the ATF and the Minerals Management Service and FEMA. When government functions, it's not news...but when it malfunctions, it is. We should all want government to function as well as possible. However, one of our major parties' principle platforms is how government can't do anything right. Republicans aren't going to suddenly start appointing people to positions of authority within the SEC who are going to diligently try to prevent Wall Street abuses and excesses. They're going to appoint someone to fall asleep at the job. It's a long-running self-serving, self-defeating, self-fulfilling prophecy of tragic proportions. Until we agree on the fundamental purposes and functions of government, we'll never have one that works as well as it could.

35) Comment by Sandy - 19/07/2012

Government does lots of things that help people everyday. And spends ten times as much money as is necessary to do them. And for every good thing government does, it does twenty totally useless things that also cost ten times as much as they should.

36) Comment by Being_Stupid - 19/07/2012

I Love Government Workers & Politicians. I appreciate their service to our Great Parish, State, and Country.

37) Comment by DMJ - 19/07/2012

Bush DID lie...and people DID die. This is a fact. And Cindy Shehan is not a sitting member of congress, a state's governor or a member of the press. She was a private citizen whose son was killed in Bush's illegal war. Bush is lucky not to be in jail.

38) Comment by DMJ - 19/07/2012

Whatnow, I'm not belittling others' opinions; I'm refuting falsehoods. I know in this age of "both sides of the argument" those two can seem like the same thing, but I assure you...they're not. If you state untrue things, like 40% of people "pay no taxes" you can expect to be called out on it. Sorry.

39) Comment by InPVille - 19/07/2012

@chem: "The disrespect shown President Obama has also been unprecedented." -[**]- Good Grief Man! What about the eight years of "selected not elected" and "Bush lied, people died" we heard during the eight years of the previous administration? How many entertainments have been produced on the subject of assassinating President Obama? How many people have been out on the golf course or where he has vacationed protesting President Obama as Ms. Shehan and others did whenever President Bush went to his WACO residence? -[**]- "He has killed more terrorists that Bush ever did. . ." Can you produce a creditable source for this statement? President Bush was in office for eight years and the situation was hotter then. I suspect much would depend on your definition of "terrorist". -[**]- "As far as the President's record, an honest, neutral look will show that he has been far from the left-wing radical that those on the right like to paint him." The true dimensions and direction of President Obama's political leanings will not provable unless and until he wins reelection and will not have to worry about being reelected. Whether or not his party has control of both houses of Congress if reelected will also impact this. As former Vice-President Cheney observed. You can't just perform an instantaneous 180 in the direction of the "Ship of State". The forces would tear the ship apart. Incrementally the country has been moved further left than it was when President Obama took office.

40) Comment by DMJ - 19/07/2012

Chem, actually...."take our country back" was Howard Dean's slogan when he ran back in 2004. Remember that speech where he gave that weird yell? Watch that speech again and look at the giant banner in the background. Still, you're right that President Obama has been shown more outright disrespect than any other president, including Bush who lied to the country to start an illegal war.

41) Comment by nimby? - 19/07/2012

Lannonmac , you are correct in AIMs' mission . it was the government that labeled them as such and listed them with other groups mentioned . seems the government thought they were the enemy . all native protest were of peaceful nature , including the current yearly events on Columbus/Italian day ....

42) Comment by chem - 18/07/2012

I did not hear any "take our country back" chants during Bush's years in the White House, or any other President's time in office. The disrespect shown President Obama has also been unprecedented. Remember the idiot that shouted "you lie" during the President's speech before Congress? The ridiculous birthers is another indication of the racist rants of some people. What other President has had to endure such nonsense? What about the once, and continuing accusations that the President is a muslim? The man is of the christian faith and yet the lie continues. And yes, Obama received a lot of the white vote. He could not have won otherwise, But that does not mean there is no racism in this country. To just wave it off as so much claptrap is not being realistic. As far as the President's record, an honest, neutral look will show that he has been far from the left-wing radical that those on the right like to paint him. Even the ACA puts the money in the hands of the contemptible insurance industry. He signed the continuation of the Bush-era tax cuts. He has killed more terrorists that Bush ever did, including bin Laden. Obama has tried to govern from the middle and the record proves that.

43) Comment by gvm - 18/07/2012

Whatnow writes: "You see, before Obama came along, I thought our country was on the way to healing a lot of racial tensions. I thought things were going smoothly.." Therein lies the problem.

44) Comment by Whatnow - 18/07/2012

@Attila, I understand what you mean by people like DMJ. They are self aggrandizing,egotistical bullies who get off on belittling others opinions. Pay him no mind. You'll notice that those types have rarely anything to offer other than bitter, mean, criticisms. I actually laugh at his barbs like Glenda does to the Wicked Witch of the West.

45) Comment by Whatnow - 18/07/2012

Chem, when I first heard "Take our Country Back" I honestly thought they were talking about taking our country back from a corrupt government. You see, before Obama came along, I thought our country was on the way to healing a lot of racial tensions. I thought things were going smoothly. A lot of white people even voted for Obama because he could be the one to bridge the gap. I hadn't heard the word racist in such a long time. Then BAM! If a person didn't agree with Obama's policies they were called "racists" even if they voted for the man! The left went nuts with it. The term became so abused that everyone is numbed by it. Nobody's listening to that kind of ***** anymore. Find a new argument to defend Obama. Try using his record.

46) Comment by Lannonmac - 18/07/2012

Well said Chem, saves me the trouble of responding to Spqr.

47) Comment by Lannonmac - 18/07/2012

Ok, Nimby, I agree that about 40 years ago there was an active Native American movement. AIM and the other Native American groups were most active at the same time as the Symbionese Liberation Army, the Weathermen Underground and the Black Panthers, so do you really want to lump the Native American identity movement with the SLA, Weathermen Underground and the Black Panthers? Furthermore, as a (alleged) member of AIM you should know that it was directed toward improving the position of Native Americans and their relationship with the USA, rather than trying to gut the Federal Government. While you may not believe it I am very, very aware of the injustices done to Native Americans, yet you have to admit that Native Americans' situation is a unique and hardly the same as the anti-government bunch that whine about the loss of their "civil rights" and warn of an upcoming race war.

48) Comment by chem - 18/07/2012

Unfortunately, I've run across far too many people that do indeed want to return to slavery and subjugating everyone except white males. Even in 2012, they talk fondly of the confederacy and the KKK. As a white male, I find that to be outrageous and embarrassing. Look at the quaint little slogan the tea baggers and other right-wing zealots started chanting after Obama won the election: Take our country back. Does anyone out there REALLY think that means anything other than I want that "black" man out of there and a real American, a WHITE man back in the saddle. Racism is flourishing in America, it has just taken on a different look.

49) Comment by spqr - 18/07/2012

Lannonmac, your comment about imagining white people wanting to return to slave days is tired and dull. New material, please. Too many of us aren't buying it. It may have worked for you in the 1970s decade of guilt, but not now. Let's be more responsible.

50) Comment by Attila - 18/07/2012

Why is it that when someone makes a comment about someone not paying taxes they are immediately pummeled with comments such as those from DMJ. When I say that almost 50% of the people pay not taxes I mean INCOME TAXES. The argument that they pay this tax and that tax is nothing more than a straw man. It mirrors the moronic retort that Obamacare is no different than being required to have car insurance. The difference IS that driving is a privilege granted by the state. If a person wants to avail themselves of that privilege they must purchase insurance. No one is forcing anyone to drive. If they don't want to pay for auto insurance they have the option not to drive...not so with Obamacare.

51) Comment by krl777 - 18/07/2012

Obama was making the banal point that if you are building a business, you do so in the context of the society in which it operates. That includes the physical infrastructure, the literacy and other facets of the basic education of workers hired, the degree of disease protection enjoyed, and the regulatory apparatus without which a previously existing monopoly could have prevented you from even having a chance to compete. Those things, along with the existing state of the market, define the context in which the business will operate. Against that backdrop, a business venture may succeed or fail. Acknowledging the role of government in establishing the commons as a groundwork for business success doesn't in the least commit us to drawing up a balance sheet in which we attribute each individual success or failure to the government. Anyone who doubts the general point is free to try to establish a business in a country with no roads, an illiterate population, roving militias, rampant disease, or entrenched monopolies or oligopolies which squash any new competition. (We may be getting there...)

52) Comment by The_Host - 18/07/2012

They aren't paying taxes if they qualify for so many credits that they get back 5 times more than they paid in over the year! My best friends daughter just had a kid. She works at McDonald's and didn't clear $12,000 total income last year. With all of her "credits" she got a check back from the Feds alone for $5000. So your contention is that someone making 12 grand a year pays over $5000 of that in taxes? Seems like a rather high tax rate for someone making so little if that was truly just her recouping the tax money she paid. Oh and if she did only recoup the money she paid then when you get right down to it she didn't pay a dime in taxes!

53) Comment by DMJ - 18/07/2012

Whatnow, that 40% DO pay taxes. They pay sales, excise, local, state and social security and medicare/medicaid. They don't make enough money to qualify to pay federal income taxes. Even people on unemployment pay taxes. You must work for Mitt Romney. He said recently that it was unfair that 40% don't pay federal income taxes, yet he wants to lower capital gains rate (coincidentally, capital gains are how he makes his $20 mill/year) to 0%. And Obama's the one engaging in class warfare?! Ha!

54) Comment by Whatnow - 18/07/2012

Mr. Chapman, you must work for the government. The government can't control the programs that they have in place now with all the fraud, incompetence and overspending. And they keep wanting to implement more. They are the only people showing a steady increase in hiring. That should tell you that something is not right. Especially when over 50% of Americans are on food stamps and over 40% do not pay any taxes. I hope you like footing the bill for all of that.

55) Comment by InPVille - 18/07/2012

@chem: "What the President said was that no one starts a business on their own, meaning that government, at all levels contribute to a businesses prosperity by supplying infrastructure such as roads and bridges, small business loans, and many other things that we all take for granted." -[**]- The people fund and grant certain powers to government to create and manage infrastructure. "The people" includes those who start businesses. Most start up businesses do not succeed and some businesses succeed for a time, then fall into decline, and subsequently fail. The point being if government wants to take part of the credit for business success, it also has to take part of the blame for business failures. Since most businesses fail this either amounts to a net negative for the government or moves the bar close to neutral. - - - For those businesses which succeed, the credit which doesn't belong to the owner/managers and employees isn't worth a whole lot. . . except perhaps for crony capitalist ventures of which recent green energy initiatives would be an example(so far mostly analogous to a dry well)

56) Comment by nimby? - 18/07/2012

Lannonmac , as a "Native American" and active member of AIM I beg to differ . the occupation of Alcatraz in 69 , wounded knee in 73 , the takeover of the B I A office in D C . the B I A is the most inept , corrupt office within the government , as if working against those it was created for . most of these so-called radical groups are in Idaho . some are nothing more than groups of individuals wishing to be free of government involvement . and as to those that have benefited most from the American government , they are entering a 4th generation of underachievement in spite of what has been done for them ....

57) Comment by Lannonmac - 18/07/2012

Nimby, what about Native Americans? First of all I have never run across a Native American anti-government movement. Native Americans have a legitimate issue with how the American Government treated them, but the White guys that run the antigovernment militias, spout antigovernment slogans and toy with sedition don’t have any reason to whine. The sad fact is that the very people that hate the US government are those that have benefited most from the American government.

58) Comment by nimby? - 18/07/2012

Lannonmac , what about the red man and his thoughts on the government ?

59) Comment by DMJ - 18/07/2012

We'll never have good government without compromise. And we'll never have compromise until we stop electing people who vow to never compromise.

60) Comment by Lannonmac - 18/07/2012

From a historical perspective, anti-government sentiment runs strong in America and even stronger in the South. But in the last 30 years the anti-government crowed have adopted a rather strange position, simultaneously hating the US government and wrapping themselves in Old Glory. They scream that their “Constitutional Rights” are being attacked, while rejecting America’s electoral process. They whine that their “freedoms” are being eroded, while actively seeking to limit the rights of other Americans. Take a few minutes to read some of the anti-government web pages easily available on the internet and it will become apparent that the foundation of the anti-government is rooted in paranoid delusions and xenophobic racism. I cannot help but imagine that the majority to the anti-government crowed longs for the “Constitutional” glory days, when a White man could own a Black man.

61) Comment by RALLEN - 18/07/2012

Based on how much we are paying for our government and the loss of rights guaranteed by the Constitution, we can certainly expect much better than we are getting from our government. If the government, especially at the federal level, were rated as an employee, it would have been fired a long time ago. Why haven't we done so?

62) Comment by jdk944 - 18/07/2012

Nimby - you mean our president that MUST use a teleprompter so as to NOT stick his foot in his mouth, don't you mean!!

63) Comment by jdk944 - 18/07/2012

Mr. Chapman, your viewpoint is about as "pollyanna" as it get's. To say you are looking through "rose colored" glasses would be an understatement. Are you an attorney for the government?? Too much of anything is bad in some way. And we have WAY TO MUCH government today!! To even have a debate about this shows how far this country has fallen from it's beginning.

64) Comment by nimby? - 18/07/2012

our president is an intelligent man who has a tendency to foot in mouth , where in there is usually a need to explain what he actually meant (damage control) . perhaps he needs better speech writers . and I fully understood what he said , no translation necessary ....

65) Comment by Chucky - 18/07/2012

Term limits.

66) Comment by spqr - 18/07/2012

Unfortunately, partisan political pitching has the government bats paralyzed to aid this nation. The voting fans find it more expensive to watch "a game" offering less promise and more congestion when leaving the middle class parking lot.

67) Comment by chem - 18/07/2012

I basically agree with the comments in the letter. Government does lots of things that help people every day. The only ones that don't recognize that are the extreme right-wingers who don't want any government. Just think of how bad it would be without any government. It would be chaos. The right-wingers are now taking President Obama's remarks about government and business out of context and trying to make it sound as though he is against business. Nothing is further from the truth. What the President said was that no one starts a business on their own, meaning that government, at all levels contribute to a businesses prosperity by supplying infrastructure such as roads and bridges, small business loans, and many other things that we all take for granted. So no, government is not the enemy.

68) Comment by Bighug - 18/07/2012

To compare our present government to sports, the batting average would be closer to .100 and football wins 2 per season. That is for both state and federal.