Our Views: New conflicts among schools

Another lesson in how chaotic is the state’s new approach to education can be found in a brief discussion by the state education board of a subject that should have been discussed at length during the 2012 Legislature, but wasn’t.

Instead, the board is just getting around to figuring out what was passed by legislators at the behest of Gov. Bobby Jindal.

A new state law allows uncertified teachers to teach in charter schools, public schools that are independently run and boosted by Jindal as a way to improve school performance.

But traditional public schools still are required to have at least 75 percent of teachers certified; the rule previously applied to charters as well.

Certification, including passage of a national teacher exam, was at one time widely thought to be an indicator of teaching quality. The new law requires only a bachelor’s degree to teach in a charter school.

“If it’s good for one, why isn’t it good for the other?” asked Walter Lee, a member of the state Board of Elementary and Secondary Education, who is also superintendent of the DeSoto Parish school system.

“Why should we have such a difference?” he said. “They are both public schools.”

The short answer to Lee’s question is politics.

The governor favors charter schools, not the traditional systems of the type that Lee runs. Jindal frequently disparages school boards and others involved in traditional education systems as reactionaries and bureaucrats opposed to change. The long answer, according to charter backers on the board, is that charters face tougher standards — in that, if they don’t perform, they could get their charters revoked. But this rationale from Education Superintendent John White doesn’t stretch very far: Traditional schools can also be taken over by the state for bad performance.

Further, this change in teacher certification does, as Lee said, set up a double standard that BESE is supposed to enforce. Now, the board is in the unenviable position of saying that certification rules are bureaucracy impeding charters, but a quality standard that the law says must be followed in traditional public schools.

There are, in fact, responsible arguments about the usefulness of certification requirements.

We have long supported alternative certification programs, which are now more widely available, to allow mid-career folks to become teachers without going back to college for an education degree.

Still, the discussion that White alluded to is one that did not occur in the Legislature. His view was simply an assumption that was written into the new bills that piled changes into an already messy and often conflicted set of statutes governing public education.

It’s more ideological politics than educational policy — even if there is a reasonable basis for reconsideration of certification requirements.

Now we have a classical situation of what’s good for the goose is not good for the gander because the latter is a Jindal pet.


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Comments (16)


1) Comment by bourbon-soda - 01/07/2012

Assertion that correlation does not imply causation in this context does not require imply that all credentials are meaningless, only that those in this context might have less meaning than the credentialed would like the polis to believe.

2) Comment by 8.3 - 27/06/2012

bourbon-soda"Correlation does not imply causation - major tenet of critical thinking." You can certainly then have the freedom to have your children taught by the demonstrably unqualified if you want, personally I would err on the side of caution. The requirements are not a guarantee but an indication. Not all lawyers, doctors, Indian chiefs, politicians, etc. are highly competent either but the credentials do provide a reasonable assumption. Otherwise, the nihilistic notion that causation is not related to correlation in this context assumes then that all credentials are meaningless. Our educational problems are social, not education and this amateur dilettantism will do little, likely much worse and cause harm. "We have met the enemy and he is us" Pogo.

3) Comment by vicwill - 27/06/2012

And yes, maybe if they didn't try to rush this through in the legislature and prevent educators from debating it, maybe a lot of these issues could have been explained and ironed out. Now you have the situation of the BESE board having to contradict itself.

4) Comment by vicwill - 27/06/2012

Now if BESE is proposing letting the charter school hire uncertified employees, but gives them a 2-3 year period to obtain that certification or take certain continuing education classes, then I wouldn't be so upset.

5) Comment by vicwill - 27/06/2012

What the certification means is that the teacher has had the training and has shown the basic skills necessary to teach in the class. That takes care of the technical side of things. On the other side, you have the personal/social skills that are also needed to be successful. These can usually be measured through observations(remember college education students have to complete teaching internships to graduate). While we may judge teachers and schools by the test scores, some people never want to explore other issues that can take away from the educational success of schools.

6) Comment by bourbon-soda - 27/06/2012

Correlation does not imply causation - major tenet of critical thinking.

7) Comment by teacherguy - 26/06/2012

To answer Bourbon-soda...the evidence that teacher certification, extended teaching degrees, and years of experience lies in the upper echelon of districts that report having lower attrition rates (which means experienced teachers), and the "best" districts having the highest proportions of master degree/national board, and teachers that are "highly qualified" to teach their current subjects. As a polar opposite, the districts that are "failing" have terrible struggles finding such teachers...as most of the "good" ones get cherry picked by the better districts over time. One of the reasons they [reformers] are putting in provisions to have non-certified teachers is so inexperienced, un-certified teachers are cheaper to employ. Also, since 50% of teachers in the past have quit the profession...the reformers are throwing in the towel to cultivate professional teachers for the long haul and hiring greater proportions of teachers that plan to "do time" and move on to other professions. As this charter school epidemic begins to eat out the substance of the public schools in the low performing school districts, the divide between the haves and have nots will grow exponentially as those teachers looking to have a career will move to the stronger academic public school districts with greater intensity than is currently happening. If I wait long enough...I may be able to pull in a 6 figure educational consultant salary to simply be willing to take my expertise and educational background in to the failing charter school districts as a supplemental income in retirement! As a college professor once told me, "you will think you are a good teacher when you start, but you really won't start teaching until your 4th or 5th year." He was right...and this de-professionalization of teaching will all too soon show that BJ, while saying the children don't have time to wait for reform, has set education for the poverty stricken children of this state back 20 years from the districts that will continue to require professional teachers.

8) Comment by conglo - 25/06/2012

An email from James Garvey to a friend. Carter & Appel did not think through these issues before rushing it through. From: James Garvey (BESE Board) <XXXXXXXXXX> Date: Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 1:20 PM Subject: RE: DEPT. RELEASES WHITE PAPER ON PROPOSED STATEWIDE "SCHOLARSHIPS" I don't know if the authors of the bills (HB 976 (by Carter) and the identical senate bill (by Appel)) thought through that issue. But, if they did, then my guess is that they are guessing that the number of students who will cross parish lines will be extremely small, at least in the beginning, which would give them time to revise the law before the problem get to by consequential.

9) Comment by bourbon-soda - 25/06/2012

Anyway, if teacher certification produces superior results and the charter schools use disproportionate numbers of teachers without certification, the public schools should easily outperform the charter schools and we can do away with them.

10) Comment by redstickhornet - 25/06/2012

I think one question that is consistently coming up about teacher certification has to do with measurable outcomes. Does having a teaching certificate lead to higher scores, fewer dropouts, better classroom management, etc. I'll bet there are a number of different answers depending on the specific outcome under scrutiny. In general, does having a license to _____ (fill in the blank) with whatever you like guarantee an outcome or outcomes? Should licensing in professional fields work that way? I'll be honest, I'm not sure. When I seek out a licensed professional to handle something for me, I'd sure like a guaranteed outcome. This might not be always realistic. How bad is the problem they are being asked to solve? What resources can I bring to bear to help you person help me? I do seek out certified people when I need a job done because at least you should have somewhere to go if the person does not do their job or acts irresponsibly/unethically.

11) Comment by cbelse1 - 25/06/2012

It's like a nature vs. nurture debate. Are good teachers born (i.e. they possess personal characteristics that make them good teachers) or can good teachers be trained (i.e. by classes that lead to certification)? The actuality is that both are necessary. Good teachers must WANT to be in the job and must CARE about students; at the same time, they also must know the ins-and-outs of pedagogy, content instruction, and classroom management. The certification alone doesn't equate a good teacher, but it is an accountability standard that ensures that the teacher has had training in the past and that they engage in professional development to ensure lifelong learning. A Blue Ribbon commission recently revamped certification standards for school counselors in Louisiana without detracting from the profession; a similar measure should be done for teaching certification.

12) Comment by rgeraldwallace@cox.net - 25/06/2012

The real question is not one of semantics, but of common sense. Trying to specify that a teacher is effective by using data points for rules only means that a "ticket-puncher" person could meet the criteria without having any teaching talent at all. What brought all of this nonsense upon us is legislators trying to please unions. When it comes to teaching, the proof of the pudding is totally with the consumer.

13) Comment by bourbon-soda - 25/06/2012

So there is no evidence that teacher certification makes any difference. Thanks.

14) Comment by spqr - 25/06/2012

Why not end the practice of having to pass the bar exam to practice law? In addition, no license will be needed to practice medicine, work in the construction industry, or operate a restaurant. No longer will testing decide the grade or qualification of a state worker. The path to a master's degree should be easier if we disallow standard testing to pursue one. The military should drop their test qualifications as well. Come on, Piyush , let's really reform the state. Let us go all the way. You can keep the inexperienced John White as your puppet and sell this nonsense to the ignorant masses.

15) Comment by lovemykids - 25/06/2012

Another wrong toward our children brought on by Jindal and his accessories.

16) Comment by bourbon-soda - 25/06/2012

How about some investigation or analysis as to whether teacher certification makes any difference? If it does, how is 25% uncertified teachers acceptable? If it doesn't, why is any requirement for certification anything other than an attempt to close the teacher shop?