Letters: BR-N.O. rail plan questioned

This note is written to expose some of my thoughts on the high-speed rail service between New Orleans and Baton Rouge.

I assume when we use the phrase “high-speed” we mean straight-through service with no stops and that will be servicing customers strictly between the two cities.

These are my questions:

1. How many passengers are traveling strictly between the two cities for business or shopping purposes?

2. How many of those passengers can or will fit into a train’s schedule? This is not a 8-5 world anymore and people have to be flexible.

The fact is that people both need and like to be flexible and only auto travel will satisfy that..Is to run that many trains per day economically feasible?

3. How do you do a traffic study that will tell you how much of the traffic between the cities are craftmen that are driving pickups loaded with tools?

4. Same problem with plant workers that leave either city and drop off at one of the many plants in between?

5. How much federal and state money are we talking about? That question applies to both the startup and subsidies after it is operating.

Carl Spillman

retired-computers

Baton Rouge

Comments

1) Comment by phil - 22/06/2012

It seems as if there is a lot more money in studying this over and over again than a passenger rail between BR and NO will ever be worth. The next study I want to see is a study of who is making all of the money on the passenger rail studies. The last study determined there would be a large ($millions) deficit every year to run this system and FOR WHAT? So some people can go to New Orleans and party every once in a while? If they work in NO they need to move a lot closer than BR, and do not expect me to pay for their travel expenses. What exactly is this type of public transit? I think this is a type that loses a gigantic amount of money every year at the expense of a lot of taxpayers who will never ride the train but will pay dearly for it. - so a few people at the top can get rich off of it.. If this is going to be built then let a privately-owned railroad company build and operate it!

2) Comment by The_Host - 19/06/2012

I wouldn't say that corruption is the only thing holding us back as a state. I would agree we have no shortage of corruption but when you add to that all the people we have that live on the government plantation it is rather hard for the half trying to get ahead to get anywhere. We should have cheap gas compared to other places that refuse to drill and refine. Nice to see the comments shut down about the CATS Union too. I guess The Advocate realized it Advocated for the tax and now the Unions are doing exactly what everyone expected them to do that didn't want this tax. Where were these employees BEFORE the election? Does anyone think for a second they weren't told to keep their mouths shut and a payoff would be coming once the tax passed? Now they just want to get theirs.

3) Comment by DMJ - 19/06/2012

Steroids, public transit is just that...public. It's a public service. It's not supposed to make a profit. And if you live somewhere else, why comment on this? Mind your own business...

4) Comment by Your Brain on Steroids - 19/06/2012

Can any of you liberals point to one, just ONE mass transit rail system ANYWHERE in the US that is not heavily subsidized by government or that just even breaks even off the fares it charges???? The city I live in has spent nearly 3 billion on a mass transit rail system that takes in less than 30 million per year in fees. For you liberals that can't do math, that is about a 100 year payback if all the fees went to pay off the cost, with no operational costs, maintenance costs or interest.

5) Comment by Elderly Man - 19/06/2012

Our state is extremely wealthy; our government is broke because the deadbeat petroleum and chemical industry largely gets a free ride here. We are the bottom of the barrel because of corruption, nothing else. We ought to be the Saudi Arabia on the United States.

6) Comment by 8.3 - 18/06/2012

yup, concerns about the following are "progressive": LA contains the area with the Highest Level of Senior Citizens Living in Poverty. LA Most Violent state (20 years in a row as of 2012) Longest prison sentence by a Congressman – LA’s Bill Jefferson LA last in Camelot Index LA 1st in corruption convictions per capita LA 49th in student performance and progress LA has worst drivers LA least peaceful state LA 50TH in women’s health LA 49th in Health LA 1st in Murders per 100,000 population. LA 1st in Laziness. LA has least affordable auto insurance Governor Bobby Jindal one of most incompetent and unethical governors LA 2nd worst lawsuit climate LA gets an ‘F’ for Children’s Dental Health LA 1st in Happiness. LA 1st in deaths from diabetes. LA 1st in Personal Income drop. LA 1st in the number of forms of legalized gambling. LA 1st in rate of children under 5 on the brink of hunger. LA 2nd Most Dangerous State LA Worst State for Nursing Homes LA 1st in Homeless Children LA 1st in Percentage of Homeless Veterans. LA 52nd in population gain LA 2nd in bad auto loans LA 49th in Higher Education LA 2nd WORST state for businesses LA 49TH in Business competitiveness and retention LA 48TH in child well-being LA 1ST in gonorrhea rate LA has highest auto insurance rates in the nation LA 1st in the rate of corruption LA LAST in attracting college-educated workers LA 51st in child care LA 2nd in Black Homicides LA roads WORST in the nation. LA 49th in Savings LA 49TH in Longevity LA 50TH in per capita income LA 50TH in livability. LA 4th Highest Rate of Adult Obesity LA 1ST in wasting Medicare dollars LA 2ND in rate of men killing women LA 48TH in places to die LA 2ND in rate of healthcare uninsureds LA 49TH in social health LA 1ST in high school dropout rate LA public schools are 4TH worst LA 2ND cost of Homeowner’s Insurance LA 1ST in net population loss LA is ONLY southern state to lose population LA 1st in people moving out LA 1ST in Southeast in population exodus LA 1ST in rate of incarceration LA 1ST in number of child living in poverty LA 48TH in educational attainment of the population 25 years and over LA 1ST in number of women living in poverty LA LAST in bond ratings LA LAST in healthcare for seniors LA 1ST in abandoning public schools LA 2ND in DWI fatalities LA 46TH in Integrity LA is the 49TH “smartest state” LA WORST for healthcare for the elderly and disabled LA LAST in wealth of our citizens LA’s economy 49th out of 50 LA LAST in cash for research LA 1ST in teen use of steroids LA 1ST in the percentage of income used to pay rent LA 2ND in rate of poverty

7) Comment by The_Host - 18/06/2012

Elderlyman- We are broke, as in no more $ to spend. Could you please give us the population densities of the areas you always clamor on about so we can compare and contract them to our own? Just saying they have this over there is hardly a good enough argument to go into more debt. Why do I need to catch a train to New Orleans? I can take I-12 or I-10 or Airline Hwy and still have a car to actually get around N.O. when I get there. I've ridden the bus in N.O. and I think I'll pass from now on. The street cars are nice though if that is the only place you are going. If trains are so wonderful why is Amtrak always in the red?

8) Comment by nimby? - 18/06/2012

on a comparative note amtrak parallels I-55 from hammond to memphis , wonder which serves more ? I do agree light rail would be beneficial , even more coming from N O , Hammond , Lafayette , making commuter stops in between , such as those in the DC metro area . this is more logical , can't imagine a bullet train from B R to N O ......

9) Comment by ScotB - 18/06/2012

A study was done about rail between BR and NO by Kurk-Kleinpeter, Inc for the Southern High Speed Rail Commission. It determined that with 4 round trips/day, it would have revenues of $3.6M and an annual operating loss of about $15M. It suggested that local governments where the stops would be located and the state share the loss. This was assuming that the federal stimulus program would pick up most of the construction costs, so without that, the operating loss would be much greater to cover the capital costs of construction. It doesn't appear this is affordable to Louisiana right now. Our current revenue shortfalls fall primarily on education and health care because of constitutionally dedicated funds. Funding for rail would likely have come at their expense. I love the idea, just wish I knew how to pay for it.

10) Comment by DMJ - 18/06/2012

You're right. 0 people rode Amtrak from Baton Rouge to New Orleans....which proves my point.

11) Comment by nimby? - 18/06/2012

how many drove interstates ? how many rode amtrak ?

12) Comment by DMJ - 18/06/2012

How much money did interstates lose last year, nimby? Right.

13) Comment by nimby? - 18/06/2012

and amtrak lost how much last year ? another financial loss , for the good of the people , provided by a generous society .....

14) Comment by ex-louisianian - 18/06/2012

The fact that even Amtrak bypasses BR, and no one seems to care, is also pretty embarrassing. In the Midwest, citizens take pride in having an Amtrak stop in their town.

15) Comment by DMJ - 18/06/2012

Also, isn't it kind of embarrassing that Baton Rouge is the state capital, home to the state's largest university and the 2nd largest city, yet you can't even catch a train to New Orleans? Personally, I think it's a little pathetic.

16) Comment by teacherguy - 18/06/2012

:)

17) Comment by teacherguy - 18/06/2012

LOL 8.3... "The hypocrisy and lack of clear thought is maddening, but obviously a result of generations of dismal educational systems. " Considering how much I've had to give up teaching students to think critically so they can pick the "best" bubble from four choices on a list of 280 "got to know" vocabulary words so my school appears to be effective...(and this will get WORSE now that teacher effectivity is linked to these tests)...I can honestly say, as a teacher in the great state of LA, lack of common sense and problem solving will get worse, not better. It is funny how education has been dumbing down from decades past as testing has become more common place (it narrows the curriculum to what will be tested), discipline has gone from getting it at home AFTER getting it at school, parents whining when their kids don't have time to study or do enhancing projects because students are so involved in extra- curricular activities, and the breeding of government check recipients has made having babies a more profitable life experience than earning a living. Oh wait, you are right...it has little to do with the environment the schools are in...

18) Comment by 8.3 - 18/06/2012

"are we to support no's airport over our own". CATS proposed a BR airport shuttle, which the provincials belittled. The hypocrisy and lack of clear thought is maddening, but obviously a result of generations of dismal educational systems.

19) Comment by DMJ - 18/06/2012

Build it and they will come? They already come. Rail service between New Orleans and Baton Rouge is not only feasible; it's necessary. Thanks a lot, Governor Jindal, for refusing the federal money that would have built the rail and bought the trains. Way to think ahead....

20) Comment by BR26 - 18/06/2012

tradewinns, To answer your question, according to the 2010 census "over 26,000 workers commuted from the Baton Rouge metro to the New Orleans metro, while 22,000 workers commuted in the opposite direction". Those numbers include only commuting patterns. The two cities also have cross traffic for recreational and personal reasons. New Orleans is still the larger city, but our economies are closely linked and have different strengths. ERB may be larger than Orleans Parish, but the New Orleans metro area (1,167,754) is still larger than the Baton Rouge metro area (802,484). I completely agree that both metro areas need a comprehensive transportation system within their respective boundaries. But connecting the two cities seems very reasonable. We need to work together and drop the "who's better" attitude. Also, the daily ridership for the Dallas-Fort Worth rail is around 10,000.

21) Comment by tradewinns - 18/06/2012

i'd think daily commuters between no and br are a thin minority. if someone has definite statistical figures i've yet to see them. if we are to run a rail line from br straight to the no airport (while that sounds great) how will that affect br's airport? are we to support no's airport over our own? portland and the rail traffic in the northeast are geared to bringing suburban commuters to work in a metro area. what we have here is two metro areas, of which br is the largest. baton rouge should be looking at creating a metro commuter system similar to atlanta's not trying to tie two metros together. how's the rail system between dallas-ft worth?

22) Comment by Elderly Man - 18/06/2012

We are not good at long range planning. We would be the folks who opposed the interstate highway system or the emergence of air travel. Rail has a place in comprehensive planning—or something akin to rail. A rail system without local transit of a high caliber will not work. Anyone who has visited Long Island or Northern New Jersey knows how good public transit services can be. I know that people here resent Portland but Portland largely works.

23) Comment by dday198 - 18/06/2012

build it and they will come

24) Comment by Stephen - 18/06/2012

I like to look at this as a both/and situation and not an either/or situations as the previous readers suggest it is. I am living in Portland, Oregon right now and see that intense downtown mass transit linked by regional light rail works well together. I like going to the airport for 2 dollars and change. I like going downtown by light rail or bus easily and in comfort. If I want, I can bring my bike along with no problem. I see what they have done here, and I get a little sad about how naysayers have held Baton Rouge back for so long. I know they mean well, but we cannot stay afraid of progress. In Baton Rouge, there always seems to be a reason we cannot do things. For example here, the metro transit must be done first. Get started on the rail now. It takes a few years. In the meanwhile, we can get a metro system in place.

25) Comment by teacherguy - 18/06/2012

Hey Spillman, I'm with you...what we need is a Metro system of some sort to ease the traffic crowding in BR would be premium! This would knock out, and enhance, some of the CATS issues, and if making stops at the statistically most trafficked areas (malls, colleges, downtown, etc.) with 10-15 minute "waits", while bypassing the traffic jams...I would be tempted to use more public transportation! Well, at least this is true when I visit cities with well established mass transportation options. You are right though that a line from BR to NO would not help get people around the cities. It would seem to make more sense to establish more efficient "get around town" transportation before connecting the cities to each other. But this is LA...