White: High standards limit teacher tenure

Relatively few public school teachers will earn a form of job protection called tenure in the future because Louisiana’s new standards are “uncompromisingly high,” state Superintendent of Education John White said Monday.

“The law is set up such that only the best of the best get tenure,” White said.

The superintendent made his comments during a webinar to discuss teacher evaluation changes that he plans to recommend to the state Board of Elementary and Secondary Education on Tuesday.

How roughly 55,000 teachers are reviewed annually is in the midst of sweeping changes as the result of a 2010 law.

In addition, annual job evaluations will be linked to tenure starting in the 2013-14 school year.

White said that, among other changes, he wants teachers that make up the bulk of those reviewed to get more detailed information on their performance from principals and others rather than a simple “effective” label.

Those at the bottom — they are called ineffective — will face dismissal proceedings if they get that label two years in a row.

Those at the top are called highly effective.

Under White’s proposed changes, teachers who finish in the 80th percentile — that means their students did better than 80 percent of their peers — would be rated as “highly effective” rather than the current requirement, which is the 90th percentile.

Backers say those in the 80th percentile are doing outstanding work.

The previous law allowed teachers to typically become tenured after three years if they got satisfactory job reviews.

White noted that more than 98 percent did so.

But a law enacted last year, and pushed by Gov. Bobby Jindal, requires future teachers to be rated as “highly effective” for five out of six years to earn tenure, which is supposed to protect educators against arbitrary dismissal.

“I would say that the bar for achieving highly effective makes tenure a reward for the ultimate high performer,” White said.

“It is for most teachers something that we hope that they achieve but a bar that is not often going to be achieved,” he said.

White noted that, in higher education, tenure “is perceived to be an extremely prestigious award” whereas such awards were “barely noticed” when public school teachers got the designation.

Opponents of the new tenure law have charged that the change was aimed at all but eliminating tenure for future public school teachers.

“It confirms exactly what we said, ” Joyce Haynes, president of the Louisiana Association of Educators and a stern critic of the new tenure and teacher evaluation methods, said.

Steve Monaghan, president of the Louisiana Federation of Teachers, said the new teacher evaluation rules are “uncompromisingly incomprehensible” and that White’s latest round of recommended changes points up problems.

“I think we have a train wreck on our hands as far
as evaluations,” Monaghan said.

White said the changes, which BESE is expected to approve, are aimed at making teachers more effective, and will help students master the more rigorous classes set to begin next year here and in most other states to improve college and career readiness.

He said they are based on input from teachers, principals, town hall meetings and advisory panels.

The superintendent said he wants to:

  • Allow teachers at the start of the school year to see data on students’ previous academic record and how much the state expects them to improve.
  • Allow principals to make scoring adjustments for teachers rated as “effective” so they have a more detailed idea of their strengths and weaknesses.
  • Provide teachers with instructional videos so they know better what is expected in classroom observations by principals and others, which makes up half of the yearly review.

The other half will be linked to the growth of student achievement for some teachers and slightly different methods for others.


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Comments (27)


1) Comment by rakishpaddy - 17/01/2013

deutsch29 - It is absurd to suggest that there is no difference in effectiveness from one teacher to another. It is equally absurd to suggest that there is no way to rank teachers for their effectiveness in teaching. Of course you can assess teacher effectiveness. Private schools do. In fact, the private sector routinely assesses performance for jobs with fewer metrics than teaching. And if you ask the parents, kids, and teachers at any school, they can tell you the best teachers and the worst teachers. Using value added standardized testing metrics is a good objective way to measure progress and to identify students that can significantly improve. If you notice, the teacher unions are not proposing ways to improve these metrics, their sole objective is to eliminate any effective accountability.

2) Comment by deutsch29 - 16/01/2013

Whit knows that VAM cannot assess teacher effectiveness. It is a classification impossibility: http://pdf.investintech.com/t/o/83zu7uz/VAM_explanation_for_legislators_REVISED_01-02.html

3) Comment by rakishpaddy - 16/01/2013

KilgoreTrout says that teachers require certification and continuing education for tenure. The LA Times study of 7 years of weighted standardized student test results for >6000 teachers showed no correlation between student performance and teacher continuing education certificates or years experience (or anythng else except the teachers themselves. Some of the consistently worst scores over 7 years were from the older, highly credentialed teachers compared to consistently good scores from teachers in the same school teaching the same subjects. Yet teachers stridently reject any evaluation beyond number of years breathing as a teacher and showing a willingness to doze through an occasional continuing education class. Teachers are not a professionals, their union has made them a commodity that can be exchanged for any other mediocre teacher. If you can't be ranked for effectiveness, and rewarded for superior performance, there is no incentive. Concerned _Parent, all professions have a distribution of performance from superior to incompetent, not even in the most menial job does everyone perform the same, there is no chance that all teachers will perform at the same level. The lack of incentive is why there is such a high attrition rate... the mediocre and incompetent teachers fight merit pay for good teachers. There are many professions in the private sector that are harder, more demanding, with much more accountability than teaching. In the private sector good performance is rewarded, mediocre performance is not, incompetent performance is terminated. In the real world, there is no tenure.

4) Comment by Chucky - 15/01/2013

1ryben - The most important part of my post was not answered. What kind of evaluation testing would you like to see ?

5) Comment by Being_Stupid - 15/01/2013

@Steve Monopolyman and Leftist ̶T̶e̶a̶c̶h̶e̶r̶ Union, that "train wreck" you see coming is Public Education Reform about to smash down your wall. You can't rage against the machine, the machine will run you down.

6) Comment by HMaltravers - 15/01/2013

As the pool of available certified teachers dwindle, be prepared to start seeing classrooms of 35-40 students per teacher. Even the most adept teacher would have serious difficulty managing, much less meeting the individual needs of that many students. As an aside, just how much teaching experience does Mr. White have? Did he ever have occasion to teach in inner-city schools with students from extremely low socio-economic backgrounds?

7) Comment by jwarren - 15/01/2013

If we were to score Mr. White's performance as superintendent of the RSD, I wonder how exactly he would rate? Well, no, actually I don't wonder. The information is available, even if the state did fudge the data that it presented to the public. It looks like Mr. White's performance was not worthy of tenure. What did he get from it? Why a promotion of course. There is some good information at the Research on Reforms site about the true performance of the RSD. http://www.researchonreforms.org/html/documents/RSDSkewsResults.pdf

8) Comment by crabby - 15/01/2013

"Relatively few public school teachers will earn a form of job protection called tenure in the future because" . . . Boobie is out to destroy public education in this state and outsource it all to for-profit charter schools.

9) Comment by 1ryben - 15/01/2013

Yes, I am scared. I'm honest in that. Part of what scares me is that the sa half (unless on the testing half your kids don't take the test seriously) of the evaluationis based on test scores. Unless you teach 4th or 8th graders the test is meaningless for the kids. The kids know this. They know that the Social studies and Science portions of the 8th grade test does not count twoard their promotion. Do you really think they they put in maximum effort on these things? I assure you, no. I magine your evaluation depended upon the performance of others yet there is abosolutely no incetive for those peole to do well. None at all. Would you be scared. Oh and it gets better, you will also be compared to others in your field but they are judged on different factors, factors that they themselves come up with, because there is no test for art, pe, band, foreign languages. What do I propose? easy. Finland, look at how Finland dramaticaly changed the teaching profession and the results they achieved because of it. Look at Massetchusetts. Lets look at what successful states and nations are doing, that have proven sucesses and emulate that. Instead we demonize, ridicule, and punish teachers. We blame blame blame, then shift resources to the private sector where profit margins take priority over learning gains.

10) Comment by KilgoreTrout - 15/01/2013

Although tenure is an area which needs scrutiny, to teach in Louisiana requires certifications and continuing education. Where is the objective research which supports many of these ideologically motivated, amateurish "reforms"?Many veteran teachers have Master's degree's and graduate hours exceeding 30, often because that is a condition of their employment. One can go to teachlouisianadotnet and view the qualifications of any educator in Louisiana except guess who? Why do we expect so much from our teachers and so little from the state's highest education official? That alone, due to the political nepotism, makes a powerful argument for even strengthening tenure "for the kids". Wouldn't having qualified persons in leadership be of utmost importance. After all, its not about the adults. Also, on teachlousiana try to look up David Leftkowith who is apparently an associate superintendent, being payed a high taxpayer funded salary. If the schools are in such deplorable condition now with highly qualified persons (the state's own definition), is it really reasonable or even sane to think that unqualified and inexperience will repair things? The truth is, there is a shortage of qualified teachers now, especially in rural and inner-city urban areas and it will get worse.

11) Comment by Mygulfbleedsforu - 15/01/2013

Comment by agagent: "I have heard that good professors are not concerned about tenure ..." I'm sure that was from a very reliable source, someone who was fully armed with supporting data. I remember once in my know-it-all ignorance, saying that if you are a good worker, you don't need to worry about keeping your job. Then I discovered the seamier side of the working world.

12) Comment by Chucky - 15/01/2013

1ryben , sounds like your scared of this testing, what kind would you offer?

13) Comment by 1ryben - 15/01/2013

Teachers are NOT SCARED OF EVALUATIONS!!!!! We welcome being evaluated. This system is flawed! It is not reliable. We are talking about people's careers, families, livelyhood. We deserve a sytem that is fair and at least some degree of accuracy. This is absurd. Imagine your kids taking a test and being told that no matter what happens only 10% of the students will get an A...make that 20% because we wonlt fix the flaws in the test, only move the numbers around to get the desired result. the students also figure out that this test is not written by anyone with any experience in the subject matter. The test is flawed. It won't measure what they actually know. Then, later they figure out that even if everyone studies hard, gets lots of questions correct that the bottom 10% will get an F. Doesn't matter how well they actually performed on the test, they are in the bottom 10%, and there is always a bottom 10%, that they will be marked a failure. Would you just let this happen to your kids?

14) Comment by Noel Hammatt - 15/01/2013

Before any of the so-called "reformers" or their ilk write in to say that White is not recommending that schools eliminate counselors or librarians, let me just point out what should be obvious, even to a child. The net result of eliminating the current requirements is to reduce the number of school librarians and school counselors. Sure, the rhetoric of the reformers seems to flow just fine, but just like the sudden increase in retirements (which one reformer tried to tweet last night could be due to demographics, as though demographics suddenly cause shifts in retirements by 33% or more in a give year), this action today by John White will result in students having fewer services. There is NO other way to understand this. And, as he often says, "it's not about the adults in the building..." and we just didn't realize how true it was! Maybe there won't be any adults left in the building! Certainly no experienced ones or professional ones! Temps only need apply.

15) Comment by Noel Hammatt - 15/01/2013

I also posted the following on John White's letter today here in The Advocate arguing in support of eliminating teachers and librarians from schools. First they came for the School Board Members, and some said, "I know some School Board Members who are not so great. Go ahead, castrate them." Then they came for the Principals and the teachers, and some said, "I know some principals and some teachers who need to go, so go ahead and replace them with a warm body, maybe with a few weeks of training." Then they came for the school counselors, and the school librarians, and some said, "students can call The Phone if they have a problem, and get books at the public library, so go ahead and take them out of the schools." Then they came for your child's school, and her Principal, and her teacher, and your precious child came home from school crying and said, "Mommy, Daddy, I love my Principal and my teacher. Why did they take them? I went to ask Mrs. Hendry in the Library, but the Library was closed. And when I went to talk to Ms. Gambriel about how sad I was, but Mrs. Penn in the office told me we didn't have a counselor anymore. Please tell me why you let them take all these special people away from me...please?" So you went to the school, and found out that the reformers had closed your school. And then you realized that you were too late. And you cried for your child.

16) Comment by Riroon - 15/01/2013

1. Over 50% of new teachers quit the profession by year five (This stat comes from Bobby Jindal's own pamphlet on education when he ran in 2008). The education profession is very stressful, and those who can't hack it show themselves the door pretty quickly. 2. Retirements were up 25% a year ago and have risen to 33% this year. 3. At least one state university has estimated the number of college students going into the profession is down 30% from previous years. 4. It is almost mathematically impossible to score 'highly effective' on the Compass evaluation. It's not that there are 'rigorous standards' for teachers to achieve. It's a math formula that DOES NOT WORK OUT and is gamed to make the teacher look incompetent http://slftblogs.net/2012/10/10/put-the-c-o-w-to-pasture-mel-tears-apart-the-compass-observation-workbook/ 5. Jindal set the stage when last year in front of LABI, he said that teachers were being paid to breathe and unless they were dealing drugs WHILE beating up students, they had lifelong protection. This is the image he put in the minds of our citizens as to the type of dedication teachers have. The state wants to make it impossible for a degreed and certified school teacher to survive in Louisiana, simply to please the ALEC-associated profiteers that Jindal still believes will take him to the White House. He simply does not care how many children, teachers, or families he leaves in his wake.

17) Comment by spqr - 15/01/2013

Well, "countryboycansurvive", the state and its teachers deserve to be led by a state superintendent with some teaching experience, but we've got John-boy White instead, the carpetbagger from New York City appointed as Piyush Jindal's personal puppet. We would never allow the LSU football team to be led by a coach who have never played the game. But in education we settle for White. He's a hypocrite and if one had never taught one can NEVER know what is going on in the schools. Never.

18) Comment by tradewinns - 15/01/2013

another "bandaid" to fix public education. it is not going to fix our schools to "upgrade" our teachers. there is nothing wrong with upgrading the teachers, it's a good idea, but, poor teachers are NOT the number one problem with our educational system. our students' behavior is! until politicians can decide how they can improve student behavior without losing a single vote for themselves, i don't see an improvement in the system. politicians are cowards. their future political aspirations are far more important to them than the children's future. fiscal fines, regardless of economic standings, that MUST be paid by the parent(s)/guardian(s) of the student, is the ONLY hope of restoring our educational system back to the front of educational systems in the world. (notice i did not say THE front, baby steps).

19) Comment by Bouncer - 15/01/2013

High standards are commendable, but unattainable and unreasonable ones are pointless, unless the point is to see to it that nobody ever meets the standards. White obviously does not understand the difference between getting tenure at the university level and tenure at the K-12 level. The two are apples and oranges. Whereas tenure at the university level is related almost exclusively to amount and quality of publications and research, such is not the case at the K-12 level, as those teachers are not required to publish or do research in order to keep their jobs. Consequently, the only yardstick that can be used to judge the "tenure-worthiness" of a K-12 teacher is evaluation of that person's classroom performance. Teachers are complaining because they perceive the means of classroom evaluation to be flawed and unfair. That seems like a valid and reasonable complaint to me.

20) Comment by Concerned_Parent - 15/01/2013

Wouldn't the ultimate goal be to have 100% of our teachers rated as "highly effective"? Shouldn't that be what everyone strives for? When you took a test in school, wasn't the point to get all test questions correct? This evaluation system makes it 100% impossiple for that goal to be reached. Only 20% of teachers can get there b/c they must be better than the other 80%. This is why the teachers are leaving the profession. You are telling them point blank that 80% of them will not reach the goals being set for them. And if you are ranked 81st out of 100(top 20%) for four years and then 79 out of 100 the next(the other 80%), you start all over again with the 5 year period. Heck, you could be rated as the #1 teacher in the state for 4 years and then drop down the next and no longer be considered "highly effective".

21) Comment by JohnBoy.White - 15/01/2013

Darn, please remove the post below, I was supposed to have sent it in a private email. I am going to have to get on our tech people. Oh, wait, I got rid of them all and hired that "special" group to come do our IT work. Anyway, please remove the message below which should have gone to Dave "Lefty" Lefkowith here at the Department of Education. Thanks.

22) Comment by JohnBoy.White - 15/01/2013

Thanks for your support Lefty, I mean "Cousin Dave." You are doing a heck of a job sucking up to me, and I want you to know I appreciate it. Might even have some work for you at some point. To earn your high salary here in the department I mean. You and I, we don't need tenure. Heck, we already make in a year what teachers here in this hick state earn in five years or more, and that is without the "residuals" you and I are getting on the side from our rich friends. Anyway, speaking of resting on our laurels, I sure wish that job in California would have worked out. I even went out and bought a house here. Can you believe it? By the way, how's that commute going from California? Check ya later.

23) Comment by agagent - 15/01/2013

I have heard that good professors are not concerned about tenure as their opportunities are unlimited, and poor professors like the protection of tenure because they may have nowhere else to go. Tenure for teachers might be similar. The good teacher may not be as concerned about tenure as marginal teachers. It has been said that about 10% of our public school teachers are ineffective, yet 98% achieve tenure. Maybe it is time to raise the bar and to reward outstanding teachers.

24) Comment by CountryBoysCanSurvive - 15/01/2013

The bar needs to be set uncompromisingly high. Our kids deserve it. People will, most of the time, do only what is required to stay on the job. I pity the teachers but that's the way it is.

25) Comment by Traveler - 15/01/2013

Fact: the number of Louisiana college freshmen choosing to enroll as education majors has dropped. Fact: New college graduates (both in our state and from other states) are not standing in line to get teaching jobs in Louisiana. Fact: Teacher retention rates are plummeting and employee retirement rates are soaring. Those veteran educators who are choosing to remain in the classroom are staying because they care about our children, despite the verbal and legal shenanigans of individuals whose agenda has nothing to do with improving public education.

26) Comment by Traveler - 15/01/2013

Cousin Dave, you may now collect your pat on the head from your boss for praising him in this venue.

27) Comment by Cousin Dave - 15/01/2013

Kudos to Supt. White for thinking outside the box. The main problem with tenure previously was the the bar was set ridiculously low so that it almost became an entitlement. This new system will force educators to perform in the classroom instead of resting on their laurels, and that's good news for students and their parents.