La. clergy deliver concerns about tax overhaul to Gov. Bobby Jindal

Advocate staff photo by BILL FEIG -- Clergy members, from left, the Rev. Lee T. Wesley, pastor at Community Bible Baptist Church in Scotlandville; Bishop Gregory Cooper Sr., Southern Regional Bishop of Full Gospel Baptist Church Fellowship; and Dr. Jay Hogewood, pastor at Ingleside United Methodist Church, deliver Monday morning an 'Open Letter From Louisiana Clergy to Gov. Bobby Jindal,' raising questions and concerns about his tax proposal, to receptionist Paige Alwood, on the fourth floor of the State Capitol.

Two groups of clergy, unbeknownst to each other, came to the State Capitol on Monday to express the same concerns about Gov. Bobby Jindal’s efforts to swap income taxes for sales taxes.

At issue is the governor’s plan to eliminate state income tax, raise state sales tax and tax more services. Both groups of ministers say raising sales taxes would harm low- and middle-income workers.

The first group arrived in the morning with a letter from 250 clergy across the state.

Dr. Jay Hogewood, pastor at Ingleside United Methodist Church in Baton Rouge, expressed concern for how the governor’s tax plan would affect families with low to moderate incomes.

Raising sales taxes means people would pay more for goods and services, said the Rev. Lee T. Wesley, pastor of Community Bible Baptist Church in Baton Rouge. Low- and middle-income people will need to spend a larger percentage of their incomes to buy essentials, he said.

Wesley and Hogewood were among a handful of clergy who delivered to the Governor’s Office a letter signed by 250 ministers from across the state.

The letter stated: “We believe that any proposed law that would increase the tax burden on low- and moderate-income families in order to decrease it for wealthy families must be judged an unjust law.”

Bishop Gregory Cooper Sr., of Morning Star Full Gospel Church in south Baton Rouge and Antioch — A Full Gospel Baptist Church in north Baton Rouge, said the ministers hoped to share with the House Ways and Means committee, which begins looking at the governor’s plan on Tuesday, the serious impact of the proposals on the needs of the majority of families in Louisiana.

Cooper said he feels comfortable in reaching out to the governor because Jindal told legislators his proposal is not etched in stone.

“I just don’t believe we’ve talked enough about it,” Cooper said.

A second, unaffiliated, faith-based group also came out against the governor’s tax plan with a rally on the Capitol steps Monday afternoon. Led by the Micah Project, an affiliate of the interfaith community-organizing group, clergy denounced the proposal as benefiting wealthy Louisiana taxpayers and corporations at the expense of the poor and middle class.

“We’re not talking about numbers on a page,” said Elder Jerry Price, of the Marine and Mount Moriah Ministries in Jefferson. “We’re talking about souls and people we love.”

Price said the statistics show that states with higher income taxes are safer, have better schools and better infrastructure. Consequently, those states have more jobs, higher personal income averages and less poverty, he said.

Thomas Bessix, pastor of the New Gideon Baptist Church in Baton Rouge, said the group asked to meet Jindal or somebody with his staff, but nobody from the Governor’s Office responded.

Tim Barfield, who is Jindal’s point man on the tax revamp, defended the governor’s proposal later in the day.

“This is not an attempt to do tax reform on the backs of the poor,” said Barfield, executive counsel for the state Department of Revenue.

Barfield said there will be a reallocation of tax burden to sales tax because of the increased rate and broadening of services.

He said there will be a slight increase across the board to businesses. That increase, he said, will be predictable and transparent.

“It’s very clear business will take more of this burden,” Barfield said.

Jindal wants to eliminate the state’s personal income and corporate taxes in favor of increasing the state sales tax by 47 percent and taxing services such as haircuts, cable television and other expenses.

The proposal will be debated in the legislative session that starts next month.

The governor wants the plan to be revenue-neutral, requiring nearly $3 billion in income tax collections to be replaced.

State Rep. Ted James, who spoke at the afternoon rally, said the governor’s plan amounted to unnecessary changes to the state’s tax system that could create revenue problems in the future.

“The tax plan just doesn’t add up,” the Baton Rouge Democrat said, quoting some of the signs the dozen or so ministers held.

“The people of Louisiana are worried,” James said. “We can’t allow Gov. Jindal’s presidential ambitions to hurt the working people of this state.”

Barfield said the Jindal administration put significant time and effort into building a rebate program to ensure there will not be an increased burden on the poor.

He said the governor wants to keep intact state sales tax exemptions on food, utilities and gas that are important to all families.

Comments

1) Comment by RSigler59 - 21/03/2013

Maybe I wasn't clear... Currently every dollar you pay in State income tax reduces your taxable income on your Federal Income tax return by $1.00. If your Federal Taxable income is $50,000 prior to itemized deductions, and you paid $ 2,000 in State Income tax, after taking the deduction for State Income tax, your Federal taxable income is $48,000. Under Jindal's proposal, if you didn't save every receipt to calculate your annual sales tax paid, using the most current IRS sales tax deduction calculator, for sales tax deduction would be $ 1,131.00. That's a difference of $869.00 x 25% tax bracket which would be an effective Federal tax increase of $217.25. Individual results will vary based on income, undated tax tables, what they purchased, how many receipts they kept, etc. It's a tax increase pure and simple, with the unintended recipient being DC - where Jindal wants to go.

2) Comment by Schmatzo - 20/03/2013

I would rather leave churches as non taxable. So called "non-profits" may be another question. I recall an article a few years ago about a medical center, seems like Tennessee or the Carolina's, elaborate campus, facilities, a councilman was challenging why a lucrative enterprise like that wasn't required to pay property taxes. (They weren't even talking income tax), it was a pretty big stink where the salaries of the executives and the perks, ended up in the paper for the public. Blue Cross Insurance, apparently enjoys non profit status. Billions in earnings. No taxes. A Consumers Union report as far back as 2008 stated that a Blue Cross plan had a 32 billion dollar surplus during a period in which they were hiking their insurance rates by 20%. The study noted that they held two to three times the reserves normally required by law. This doesn't help policy holders who may already be paying 25 to 40 percent of their income for insurance coverage. In reality every business needs to make a "profit" or it will indeed go out of business. The idea of a not for profit is that any "profits" it makes will be reinvested in the organization itself. It has to pay bills, etc. also. Theoretically somewhere in there is a portion of earnings or profits that give away goods or services to those who are not able to pay. The problem is, that you can still call yourself a non profit even though you only paid out 1% in charity. As one healthcare executive had noted, the main difference between a "for profit" and a "not for profit" is that the latter pays no taxes.

3) Comment by HerbF - 20/03/2013

Then the IRS tax code should be ammended to remove the exemption churches have for income tax. >>>>> That is very unlikely to pass Congress. A court challenge will probably be the only shot. In a country where a large majority of people believe in "angels", the exemption for religion wil likely continue for years more.

4) Comment by Mygulfbleedsforu - 20/03/2013

Herb F, if income tax gets abolished I think you'll get your wish, at the state level anyway. I read this at the Dept of Revenue's site: Are sales to churches and nonprofit organizations subject to sales tax? Yes, sales to churches and nonprofit organizations are subject to sales tax unless they are specifically exempted by statute. The designation of tax-exempt status by the IRS provides for an exemption only from income tax and in no way applies to sales tax.

5) Comment by HerbF - 20/03/2013

Churches themselves should be taxed. There is absolutely no reason not to do it. We simply don't do it because we never have done it. >>>>>>>>>> Not too long ago law enforcement, and everyone else, looked the other way when Priests were preying on kids. It's not that everyone didn't know what was going on. It's just that they had never held priests accountable under the law before. They allowed it because it had always been done that way. This tax issue is the same EXACT thing.

6) Comment by Schmatzo - 20/03/2013

While I do believe that taxes and incentives tend to lean in favor of the Gulfstream class in general, doing the tax swap is still the way to go. One less form to fool with, 30 or 40 less to "Turbo" at tax time. For the most part, people are going to buy what they really want, regardless. If you really wanted everyone to pony up their fair share, you could have a "credit card" type proof of insurance card, to scan when you buy gas. You could still buy gas if you didn't have it, but the pump would add a ten to fifteen percent sales tax to your purchase, to help offset damage and injury claims by uninsured motorists in our state. That would be another way to get everyone "in the game", not just the taxpayer.

7) Comment by Scrooge - 19/03/2013

agagent - says "Research has shown" giving no clue to what that research is or how to verify it, however Pew Research found that only about a quarter of claims on news sites were based on facts, most were partisan generated propaganda. Sad. Research show that 98% of agagents claims of "research" are invented by him, the other 2% are copied from propaganda sites. Got Rush?

8) Comment by agagent - 19/03/2013

Research has shown that eliminating income taxes can help states add an extra 1% growth, as compared to states with income taxes. Government programs have not been effective in helping people out of poverty so the best hope for those living in poverty is a stronger economy and more jobs. As for helping the poor we should take personal responsibility to help the poor without farming out our responsibility to the government. Liberals may think of themselves as defenders of the poor but research shows that they are less generous in donating to charitable causes. A consumption tax on non-essential purchases will broaden the tax base, and everyone will pay a share in funding the state government.

9) Comment by Warp7 - 19/03/2013

The clergy is wasting it's time. This arrogant Governor does not care about the concerns of anyone but himself and his conservative agenda. Now we see Sen. Guillory from Opelousas is once again supporting and being the mouth piece of Jindal for the tax change. Makes you wonder what was offered to this turncoat.

10) Comment by Mygulfbleedsforu - 19/03/2013

RSigler, I think you are a little off the mark on your tax assertion. The state tax is deductible from your taxable income for federal tax purposes. The state tax is not deducted dollar for dollar from your federal tax. So for a simple illustration, if your federal tax rate is 25%, then your state tax amount times 25% is the amount you save on your federal tax bill. You don't save the entire amount.

11) Comment by brhope - 19/03/2013

Seems like our state is becoming a testing ground for the wacky (and a lil evil) schemes the right wing conservatives are coming up with to keep the poor poorer and make the middle class smaller. Hopefully the citizens of our state are not DUMB enough to think this is a good idea.

12) Comment by crazycajun - 19/03/2013

Any and all sites the booby gang uses is ALEC approved. In other word the stats are cooked.

13) Comment by RSigler59 - 19/03/2013

Louisiana currently has one of the most competitive industrial tax abatement policies in the U.S. In most cases, most all of the corporate taxes are wiped out during the abatement period. Corporations base site expansion decisions on transportation infrastructure, utility costs, education, higher education, available trained workforce, legal climate, insurance costs, availability of needed natural resources, and stable government. Of this list, Louisiana has the natural resources covered, and if the location is on the River, we have the marine transportation. We are currently gutting education, our trained workforce number are poor because they have left, our insurance rates are high, our road system is poor, and our governrnment structure isn't financially unstable. By all means, let's compound the problem by screwing with the basic funding mechanism while we ignore the bigger problems.

14) Comment by crazycajun - 19/03/2013

As usual ag ur clueless. Please stop embarrassing urself. Nothing of what u said concerning the big bad liberals holds a grain truth. Don't get me stated. I'll make a fool of u for surw.

15) Comment by RSigler59 - 19/03/2013

According to their website, "The vision of the Civitas Institute is of a North Carolina whose citizens enjoy liberty and prosperity derived from limited government, personal responsibility and civic engagement. The mission of the Civitas Institute is to facilitate the implementation of conservative policy solutions to improve the lives of all North Carolinians". Their study does not address the overall bottom line tax liability such a change makes on individuals or corporations. Based on some of their links, they appear to be a Tea Party to Libertarian "think" tank, and based on their praise, they are drinking the Jindal koolaid.

16) Comment by agagent - 19/03/2013

The liberal idea of compassion is causing many to be stuck in a life of poverty. Louisiana has seen much suffering caused by liberals’ idea of “compassion.” We can have a better economy, which offers more opportunities and a better chance at a happy life, as compared to being hopelessly mired in a life of poverty.

17) Comment by agagent - 19/03/2013

“The Civitas (Civitas Institute) report evaluates the economic benefits from eliminating the personal income tax, the corporate income tax, and the franchise tax, all of which penalize businesses and hinder job creation. In place of the old taxes, the reform calls for a new consumption-based tax system, largely via expanding and slightly increasing the state sales tax. The findings of this study show the proposal is a recipe for economic growth and more jobs. The Civitas study shows that such consumption-based tax reform can increase North Carolina’s average annual rate of personal income growth by 0.38 percent to 0.66 percent. It also shows that states without a personal income tax have average annual growth rates 0.5 percent higher than other states, while states without corporate income taxes average a full percentage point higher each year.”--Forbes

18) Comment by postscript56 - 19/03/2013

The posts supporting the tax swap all have one thing in common. In fact it's a central theme in modern conservative thinking. That is if you are poor or struggling, it's your own fault. This belief absolves the believer of both the obligation to act and the guilt associated with acknowledging the obligation. Now free of obligation and guilt, there is no reason for the believer to support a progressive tax as the most successful then have no greater obligation than the less successful, since the less successful are less succesful by choice. Thus a broad-based, flatter tax is reasoned to be morally superior to a progressive tax. But only since the poor and struggling are to blame for their individual situations. This is the thinking behind the tax swap and most of those who support it. It's all over the page here. Careful you don't step in it.

19) Comment by RSigler59 - 19/03/2013

For my comments on State Income Tax vs Sales Tax deductions on your IRS Income tax liability, simple go to IRS.gov and type in "State Income Tax deduction", "Sales Tax deduction". You will need to include the word "Corporate" on another search. The math is really easy - just use your '12 W-2, and compare your '12 State Income tax return amount to the IRS sales tax deduction calculation. It proves immediately that the Administration has no concern about what the overall impact is on the individual or business bottom line, and that ironically it fattens the wallet of Obama & our Romper Room Congress..

20) Comment by sryan - 19/03/2013

thats incorrect on the assertion that obama has issued a high number of executive orders. Firstly, he has issued the lowest number at this stage of his presidency in 100 years. A rumor on the internet claims its 900. Its actually 139 as of Sep last year. second, they arent unconstitutional. you cant executive order a spending plam, or a bill, or the elements of a bill. THey have been used thousands of times over the centruies becuase they are in and of themselves constitutional. They are just an exercise of existing authority. For instance, look at all the exeucitive orders that the gun fraks were excited about after Sandy Hook. They were for things like exercising existing controls and laws, establishing studies, and advertising good gun habits. Nothing in there required a law or a bill. Thats not how dictators act is it? in that case Obama is the least dictator in the last 100 years.

21) Comment by JohnStJ - 19/03/2013

It's 2013 folks, why don't we get access to copies of the data here? I'd surely like to look at the data that powers the claims that trading increased sales taxes for a renunciation of corporate and personal income taxes really raises taxes on everyone. And if NO such data has been released then that is something that needs to plainly said in the article. A link in these comments please.

22) Comment by foldgers - 19/03/2013

And again to Twinkie, just read your post prior to your reply to mine. Bobby is NOT the only dictator out there right now. Can you even count the number of executive orders that have gone through by the current president? In case you do not know what that is, it is when the president knows something he wants done will not be voted for by congress, so he sidesteps that and issues an "executive order." Kind of haw a dictator acts. And the reason people leave this state is because there are really not that many jobs here for people with "educations." And the ones that are here, do not pay nearly as well as in other states. Get a company like Google to set up shop here and see what happens. And hey, if this incentive plan does not bring in corporations, then guess what, we will see that in just a few years if unemployment is the same and average income is the same. As far as Bobby, I do NOT like him. I do NOT like all the cuts to education as well. I do NOT like him spending all his time out of state. I do NOT like him only visiting a town because all of a sudden it is getting media attention. But think about htis idea for a moment, it is NOT an attack on the poor. Guess what? All those wealthy people you say this will help... next time they buy a $5M home, they will have to pay an extra $94k in sales tax. Next time a wealthy woman goes to spend $10,000 on Coach purses, 20 pairs of shoes, skirts, tops, dresses, diamond earrings and what not, she will spend an extra $1,880! The wealthy will be paying MORE as well! Just open your eyes.

23) Comment by foldgers - 19/03/2013

Twknkie, you are drinking the kool-aid. I am NOT saying that they (I am in that group as well) do not deserve an iPad or whatever. But, dude, if they buy a $500 iPad, for whatever reason as I do not even have a use for one, it will cost them an extra whole $10!! How is that attacking the working class? Once again, READ my entire comment, those working class people (ME INCLUDED) will NO LONGER HAVE STATE TAXES TAKEN FROM PAYCHECKS! They will be able to afford the extra $10!! Open your mind little man. If someone is working at McDonald's because they chose to drop out of high school, then no, I do not see why they would need rims or 60 inch TVs. Settle for factory rims, like I do, and go for the 47-inch TV. Either way, if a hard working person somehow figured that spending $5000 or brand new rims was more important than saving for the future, of their children or their own retirement, then they will only be spending an extra $188!! If they can afford $5000 rims, they can afford an extra $188!!! Not to mention, AGAIN, state taxes will NOT be taken from their checks! Not to mention, chances are they also play the lottery and/or gamble... if they hit a nice prize, they will NOT have to pay state income taxes on it as well!! I may have had kool-Aid as a child, but you are still swimming in the stuff!! Please READ and THINK about what I wrote before you only read the first few words and go off on your "Obama dependent everyone deserves the fancy things in life" rant. Not all are created equal, yes, a few are born into it, but a lot of people bust their butts for what they have! They forgo the Polo brand shirts and buy generic brands to save money. They do NOT expect others to pay for their wants.

24) Comment by RSigler59 - 19/03/2013

Sorry guys. State Corporate Income taxes are also totally deductible on Corporate Federal Taxes on a dollar to dollar basis. The smart guys who make corporate decisions to please their stockholders all know this. And because Corporation rigorously maintain and account for every dime of sales taxes, the net result of this plan - as the Jindal administration admits - is overall higher corporate taxes. What he doesn't tell you is that instead of the State receiving that Income tax money, Corporations like individuals would now remitting the same amount of money directly to the Feds minus their deductible sales taxes paid. The bottom line net result is ZERO incentive for a business relocating to this state.

25) Comment by twinkie1cat - 19/03/2013

The day Jindal listens to a preacher will be he day he starts actually believing in Jesus Christ and doing what he would do instead of what Satan would do if he was governor.

26) Comment by twinkie1cat - 19/03/2013

Foldgers, why should someone who works hard on a regular job not be able to have rims, a big TV and an I-pad? Why should they have to save up for a a 10% sales tax? Are you jealous because people you regard as "unworthy" have a few nice things? You remind me of the 1950s when my parents would drive with me through a poor, black neighborhood going to Grandma's, doing their best to indoctrinate me about how terrible it was that the people had a raggedy looking (on the outside) house, with a new Cadillac in the front and a TV antenna on the roof. Well, why not? They couldn't live in a better neighborhood in those days. And even today, some people work hard on perfectly horrible, even demeaning jobs and spend their money on luxury items that make them happy. You are a very annoying little man who drinks a lot of Kool-Aid.

27) Comment by Bouncer - 19/03/2013

Such unbridled hatred and contempt for the poor emanating from the "religious party."

28) Comment by phil - 19/03/2013

One group pushes the spread of TIF districts and calls it part of "smart growth" and the other group pushes getting rid of the income tax and adding sales taxes. Put the 2 together and what do you get? I do not know the answer yet, but I think the devil is in the details on these proposed tax changes Be careful what you wish for!.

29) Comment by twinkie1cat - 19/03/2013

Duckylove: Their churches might not pay taxes, but they do. Pastors have very complicated tax forms because they have to count the value of such things as housing allowances. It's he church that is non-profit, not the pastor. Mine has fits with his forms every year.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I wish you rightwingers would stop drinking the Kool-Aid. Louisiana is NOT going to gain substantially more jobs and business until it becomes a desirable place to live and work. It is not going to become a desirable place until Jindal quits messing with the schools and health care system and acting like a dictator. We have lost the kinds of businesses that attract a variety of intelligent people. We are losing our college educated people as soon as they can move to Texas or Georgia. We are going to lose more and more educated women because the kinds of well paid manufacturing jobs that Jindal attracts are heavy labor related and mostly taken by men---working class men who vote Republican. Plus they are not in the desirable urban areas for the most part. Louisiana is a great place to visit, but educated people do not want to live here.

30) Comment by foldgers - 19/03/2013

Thank you wiliedog. Even if people HATE, with all their hearts, big bad evil corporations, telling them they are exempt from state taxes will bring MORE jobs here. Unemployment will go down. And not to mention, the income taxes collected from all the newly hired people will produce more money for the state. Drive around this state. There is a ton of land just sitting there that would be perfect for a corporation to set up a large warehouse, HQ...whatever. Get the companies here!! If this is how, then so be it... not to mention a larger number of small business will be opened, which is always good as well. And this is ONLY an attack on middle class and poor if those middle class and poor buy iPads, rims, expensive cars, large TVs and so forth. Otherwise, lower your spending, increase your savings and ALSO bring home a larger paycheck!! Just a quick thing here to consider. He is proposing to increase the state sales tax by 1.88%. Yes, almost a HUGE 50% increase from its current amount. But think about it like this, for every $10,000 you spend... TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS... NOT on bread, eggs, utilities, baby food, diapers and other NEEDS, but $10,000 of stuff like expensive cars, TVs, Xbox, PS3, Nintendos, name brand clothing and stuff like that... for every $10,000 you spend on WANTS, you will be spending an extra whopping $188! I guarantee you that amount will be recouped by not having money taken out of your paychecks. ALSO, for WE middle class and the poor who LOVE to gamble, you hit a nice little pot on a slot, or a prize drawing or even the LOTTO, you will NO LONGER PAY STATE TAXES on those winnings!!! If you would just look beyond what the media is telling you and think about it for a second... just THINK FOR YOURSELF! Look at all the pros and cons instead of focusing on the cons that the media wants you to. I am not Bobby fan, but I have always been a avid fan of this idea. If I were Bobby, I would go ahead and say that any money saved by the state for being able to reduce the size of the La Dept of Revenue, will go straight to education, see if that would help.

31) Comment by twinkie1cat - 19/03/2013

Transparency? Increased services? Rebate? Yeah, right. In the Jindal administration! I will believe that when Abdullamabab (president of Iran) becomes a gay Baptist preacher and Jindal endorses same sex marriage and comes out as transgender. This is nothing but a scam to decrease the contribution of the wealthy to our revenue and increase what the poor and middle class are forced to donate. They'll probably start charging admission to enter the Capitol and a fee for sending Jindal an e-mail.

32) Comment by wiliedog - 19/03/2013

What if making the state more inviting for industry (you know, the things that produce stuff and create jobs) brought more industry into the state...made it more inviting for people to retire here as well. What if there were more and better paying jobs available and the tax base grew along with the jobs? Naw...we don't want that...we would rather grow our poor voting base and keep them down on the Dem plantation...

33) Comment by DMJ - 19/03/2013

These pastors are wasting their time. Jindal is going to do whatever he feels like doing. It's funny....the one time I want Jindal to actually heed advice from clergy and he ignores them.

34) Comment by Duckyluve - 19/03/2013

This is funny stuff. A bunch of guys whose churches don't pay taxes complaining about people that actually do pay them.....what a bunch of hypocrites.

35) Comment by crazycajun - 19/03/2013

postscript ur a hundred % right. The low or little information "voters" are like shooting fish in a barrel. To tell u the truth, they are at the mercy of anyone trying to take advantage of them. Objectivity is not a their strong suit by any means. They tend to be led to believe that any and everyone else is to blame for their problems in life. It's much easier to deflect blame than to accept blame.

36) Comment by RSigler59 - 19/03/2013

One point the Governor has not addressed is the overall increase in the total tax burden this proposal will have on almost everyone. State income tax paid is totally deductible on a dollar to dollar basis on your annual Federal Income tax. Sales taxes are are also deductible, but to do so you must either save each and every one of your receipts or use the standard Federal deduction for sales tax based on your adjusted income. In many cases there will be a huge (my case $903.00) in my total tax burden using the Standard Sales Tax deduction vs. my deductible State Income Tax. In a nutshell, eliminating the State Income Tax will effectively increase your Federal burden by the amount you are currently paying direct to the State minus your documented sales taxes. Passing this off as "fair distribution" of the burden is fair only if you save every receipt, and you qualify for filing using a long form 1040. Thus it will unquestionably adversely affect most taxpayers and in particular those who make less than $100K. Then there is the issue of sending DC more tax money for all the really ourstanding work they are doing in a spirit of togetherness and trust....

37) Comment by Ben Yay - 19/03/2013

Keep in mind: Does anyone actually think Jindal is doing this for the good of the state, or for the good of his campaign for president?

38) Comment by gvm - 19/03/2013

@Tradewinns:your bitterness is telling. You may one day soon find yourself among the very people you despise. Karma is a....well, you know.

39) Comment by Mygulfbleedsforu - 19/03/2013

postscript56, thank you. I agree with every word of your post.

40) Comment by LawyerDan65 - 19/03/2013

It is sad to read some of the vitriol directed at a group of pastors who are merely expressing their opinion. As one of them is my pastor I am able to say, with authority, that he is not in a $1000 suit and does not live high on the hog. Our church has a number of ministries to aid and assist the poor, and our pastor's concern are sincere. Apparently a number of the commentors have had bad experiences with religion, and I hope they find solace for that pain.

41) Comment by CountryBoysCanSurvive - 19/03/2013

2 tradewinns, I feel like you do. The vast majority of the poor, are poor due to a life of bad decisions. My advice to them would be ," When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging" Going to one of those pay day loan places is a great example of bad decisions. If you don't have the money today, you will surely have less next week when you pay off these thieves.

42) Comment by Schmatzo - 19/03/2013

This is a fair and equitable tax that helps ensure that everyone is "into the game", not just those who work and earn. Most people will be able to offset the sales tax by spending their money a little differently. Too many low income folks have fallen prey to gimmicks like selling used cars from their front yard, and they "won't have to work", or thinking they can buy a 40000 dollar Taho, and somehow pay for it with the money they "save" by going to the (dollar) store. If the nice church leaders are concerned about economic burdens on the poor, they should be going after the "pay-day" loan companies who handcuff poor people to a treadmill at 40% interest or more, or the "home rental" folks who rent them computers and electronics for twice the price they could have purchased it for. That is the real tax that the poor are paying.

43) Comment by muddy - 19/03/2013

@whodat70816 we don't talk % because they are a liberal way to fool the people.i made 50,000.00 last year and paid way less than 10%,but a millionare that paid 10% paid 15x what i did.talking in percentage is b/s.put a dollar name on it. with that said i am a registered republican but i cannot and will not suppert this plan.mark my words,in two or three years someone will decide they need more revenue and property taxes will sky rocket causing most owners to sell.bad deal all the way around

44) Comment by markedwardmarchiafava - 18/03/2013

Bet none of the right reverends bothered to teach Bobby "jump ship" Jindal this one fact: stealing, whether done by an individual or a group, is sin.

45) Comment by postscript56 - 18/03/2013

"...not an attempt to do tax reform on the backs of the poor." How many times has Barfield or some other Jindal spokesperson said something like that. It's an example of a tried-and-true conservative principle - if you say it often enough it becomes fact. Don't believe me? How many self-identifying conservatives out there do you think still believe Saddam had something to do with 9/11? 10%? 20%? How many will swear the government wants to confiscate their guns? 60%? More? How many are sure Obama is a Muslim? 50%? Not an American? 25%? The media is liberal? 100%! For all those who are about to refer me to studies proving what an idiot I am, don't direct me to anything from a partisan think tank. That's just another way to say it often enough. Yeah liberals do the same thing. But liberals are pikers compared to the right. The modern right may be the most successful propaganda campaign ever undertaken.

46) Comment by whodat70816 - 18/03/2013

@wherearewegoing....Only republicans do not like talking about or understand percentages. That's because percentages tell the real story. Republicans don't like hearing that a Millionaire pays 10% of their salary in taxes while someone making $50,000 pays 20%....too much truth for them. Sorry, I don't think the advocate stating that the state sales tax will increase by 47% is misleading at all. I don't find it to be slick at all. It's just the truth.

47) Comment by whodat70816 - 18/03/2013

So Jindal's pitch was a tax swap would attract more business and make Louisiana more competitive because the taxes would be less for business.....now today we read that the tax swap will actually make businesses pay more taxes. Which is it?

48) Comment by tradewinns - 18/03/2013

exempting religious organizations from govt. taxation is just plain wrong. if one feels the need to give to a religious (even charitable) organization, it should not be because you get a tax write off, it should be because of your desire to help others because you have the means. i, personally, hate the poor. i do not care what happens to them physically or mentally.

49) Comment by Bouncer - 18/03/2013

I've always found it ironic that members of the "religious party" treat the poor so shabbily.

50) Comment by Old Man Kensey - 18/03/2013

So, let me get this straight about the below comments, now 250 ministers around the state are part of the vast conspiracy but the politicians are wearing halos? Sales taxes have always been regarded as the most regressive tax there is. This is nothing more than Jindal doing the work of ALEC and padding his own resume.

51) Comment by 8point6 - 18/03/2013

Well, clergy, if the tax is going to be a "burden on low- and moderate-income families", why don't you identify this group and send some of the donations you collect to help them? After all, that's what the "faith-based" community is all about.....helping the poor. And, I agree, the "increasing the state sales tax by 47 percent" statement will be confusing to many.

52) Comment by mcBR - 18/03/2013

Notice that the worshipers of the Religion of Money did not sign...

53) Comment by wherearewegoing - 18/03/2013

Foldgers: You and I typically agree, though I'm not a fan of your "$50,000" statement. I just think they should do a better job of making sure everyone will understand this proposal. I don't agree with this proposal because I think Jindal half-donkeyed it just so he can add it to his resume. Taxing services is fine by me, because (like you said) they should've been taxed all along, and plenty of these services will not collect the tax anyway because they are operating illegally to begin with. But I read that Jindal's plan will exempt businesses that make less than $10K from needing to collect sales taxes. Why? Get that money, son! If they don't collect all year expecting to make $9K then wind up with $10K+, that's a problem! Just make everyone do it. Also, how about throw some support to Mary Landrieu (stay with me here) for the bill she's working on that'll force internet businesses to collect sales taxes. Supposedly that'll bring in a billion dollars right there. I love the idea of not paying income tax, just do it right.

54) Comment by foldgers - 18/03/2013

Sorry, at $30 per lawn with a sales tax rate of 5.88%, it comes out to about an extra $1.75, not $2.70

55) Comment by foldgers - 18/03/2013

Wherewearegoing, they could also put it like this, "On average, each Louisiana citizen will be spending an extra $50,000 in sales taxes over their lifetime." Or whatever number it may be. I agree with you here, though you may not agree with my previous comment... My point being is, most of these "services" that would now be taxed, should have always been taxed to begin with. I know many people who perform these services for cash and don't report most of it. And if you do not want to pay $2.70 more to have someone mow your grass (on average cost of $30 per lawn), then mow your own lawn. You can CHOOSE how much taxes to pay in the end. If we are going to pay taxes, then why not be able to choose how much we pay? I had no choice in my property taxes going up for CATS. Neither did many middle and lower class people who own their homes, but that passed with flying colors! Funny how new taxes are good for everyone to pay if one party wants them, but bad if the other one does.

56) Comment by foldgers - 18/03/2013

Cut your own hair. Mow your own lawn. Get rid of cable and subscribe to Hulu, netflix... you can choose what to pay. Not to mention, this is all coming from the people who say you NEED to pay 10% of your income to them and their churches... 10% BEFORE taxes and deductions. And what does the church provide in return for all the money they receive from their followings? A building where these people can come to every Sunday to give their money. Not to mention, $1000 suits to the pastors along with expensive houses, fat bank accounts, nice cars, nice watches/jewelry and so on. Yeah, I am going to listen to these clergy. Heck, Jimmy S. can maybe hire another prostitute with their money as well...

57) Comment by wherearewegoing - 18/03/2013

*figures ARE correct* Sorry for the typo.

58) Comment by wherearewegoing - 18/03/2013

Anyone else think it's a tad bit misleading to state that the proposal is "increasing the state sales tax by 47 percent"? I know that the figures or correct, so I don't need a math lesson, but to the many out there who DO lack proper sense and math skills, they are going to think that this proposal will increase your sales tax to 51% of the sticker price. While I'm not in favor of this proposal as it is written (I do favor repealing the income tax, though) I think that this type of biased journalism is ridiculous. This newspaper (and many other forms of media) fully understand what they are doing. They also understand that many people will not fully understand this proposal unless it is spelled out to them. This should be written as "Jindal wants to eliminate the state’s personal income and corporate taxes in favor of raising the state sales tax to 5.88%." If they want to be slick with the numbers they can then add "which is an increase of 47%," but even with that clear of a statement many will not understand. I just think the Advocate should have do a better job in translating the facts so that all (educated and not) will understand things properly. Ball's in your court, Millhollon.