Letter: Death penalty not the answer

I am writing in response to the letter from Lynne Marino printed in The Advocate Feb. 23. Marino calls for faster executions in Louisiana and argues that we should follow the examples of Texas and California in our treatment of death-penalty cases.

Texas has released 12 inmates from death row since 1978 because they were found innocent of the crimes that sent them to death row. And the 1989 execution of Carlos Deluna has been called into question by evidence that strongly suggests his innocence. Cal ifornia has freed three men from death row based on innocence. Louisiana has released nine men from death row according to Innocence Project information. The danger of executing the innocent is very real.

California has determined that it has cost the state $4 billion to have the death penalty on the books. I am sure that $4 billion more spent on police and law enforcement would be a better use of those funds in protecting the public. It’s plain the death penalty is not effective law enforcement policy. The death penalty is not a deterrent to crime, as Marino states.

There are many more issues that I could address in Marino’s letter. But space is limited here. I understand the source of her outrage and pain. Sadly, the execution of one or a hundred men would not provide her any surcease. Speeding the death penalty is not the answer.

Mark Upton

lawyer

Baton Rouge

Comments

1) Comment by 1ryben - 01/03/2013

someone named Foldgers watching a documentary called "Hot Coffee." Am I the only one seeing the humor there? When he does, is it just like a family vacation video?

2) Comment by DMJ - 01/03/2013

Foldgers, I suggest you watch a documentary called "Hot Coffee."

3) Comment by foldgers - 01/03/2013

1ryben, yes, you are right, but I think most people do not like the lawyers who sue a company because their client put a cup of hot coffee in their lap in the car because they "Didn't know the coffee would be that hot." It is those that present cases that are so insane, like the two prisoners in another state suing, this is true, all the alcohol companies blaming then for their time in jail because they were drunk when they committed heir crimes and had NO idea that drinking alcohol was a bad thing. It is those lawyers that people do not like. I am one that agrees with and is OK with any lawyer that defends anyone for any reason, even if their client had murdered a family member of mine. It is their right to have that lawyer and I never get upset with the lawyers in those cases. Reasonable doubt. And about the prisoners released early who were on death row, technology has gotten a little better than it was in 1978.

4) Comment by 1ryben - 01/03/2013

Everyone hates attorneys until they need them to fight for their rights. Attorneys don't make the laws. I'm sure if you were being accused of something you'd appreciate the expertise provided by the attorney. You do not need them. You canways represent yourself. Good luck with that.

5) Comment by Duckyluve - 01/03/2013

Imagine that, a lawyer not wanting a source of income to be killed. What a joke

6) Comment by Whatnow - 28/02/2013

I've got a perfect solution. Give them a cell exactly like Hannibal Lector's and put a TV in front of him with constant politician speeches for life. Too rough? Okay, then Barney. "I Love You" sang by Barney for decades ought to be a great punishment and teach him love, too.

7) Comment by MBW - 28/02/2013

If the death penalty is a deterrent, prove it. Because here are some studies that show that states WITHOUT the death penalty have lower murder rates on average: http://www.nytimes.com/2000/09/22/us/absence-executions- special-report-states-with-no-death-penalty-share-lower.html? pagewanted=all&src=pm http://voices.yahoo.com/the-death-penalty-effect-homicide-rates- 4549911.html

8) Comment by MBW - 28/02/2013

The death penalty is simply NOT a deterrent. Most death penalty crimes are crimes of either passion or insanity. Nobody stops and thinks "Maybe I shouldn't do this because I might get the death penalty".

9) Comment by MBW - 28/02/2013

I once served on a jury for a medical malpractice case and saw first hand how easily jury members could be swayed by emotion and sympathy even when the facts said otherwise. The jury was prepared to ruin a doctor's career because they felt sorry for the patient.....but fortunately, there were a couple of us who stood up for the facts. I came away from the experience convinced that the death penalty, if given at all, should never be swift and should have the most rigorous burden of PROOF possible. The desire for revenge and closure should not be sufficient to kill someone.

10) Comment by MBW - 28/02/2013

There is a difference between "closure" and "justice". Executing the wrong person in a rush to judgement may bring "closure", but it sure as hell doesn't bring "justice".

11) Comment by MBW - 28/02/2013

So tired of the complaining about "technicalities". Due process is not a "technicality". The Bill of Rights is not a "Technicality." These so-called technicalities are what forces the government to do its job properly before they can kill you.

12) Comment by tradewinns - 28/02/2013

i support the death penalty both as a deterrent and as punishment. if criminals truly believed (they dont anymore) they would be executed in a swift timely manner they wouldn't kill so quickly over what is normally considered a slight. i also believe the victim should not be forgotten in the crime. while our "justice" system gives lip service to the victim and their families - victim statements after conviction and before sentencing- it's just that lip service. they are dead and have no rights. only the criminal has rights in our court system. ma miscarriage of a real justice system if ever there was one.

13) Comment by On_The_Fence - 28/02/2013

That's Mrs. Marino to you, Upton. "I understand the source of her outrage and pain."...odds are betcha don't.

14) Comment by jedleland - 28/02/2013

it only takes a few minutes to cobble one of these posts together you know. it aint an exertion. i do like to hear the air escape from the little balloons of fantasy some folk build around themselves though. all it takes is one pr!ck. make your own jokes!

15) Comment by jedleland - 28/02/2013

****Comment Removed for Violation of Terms of Use****

16) Comment by Bouncer - 28/02/2013

Jedleland....easy there, big fella. You'll bust an artery!

17) Comment by jedleland - 28/02/2013

give DOTD a call and ask them how much it costs to pave rural highways per mile and how that works out to a per vehicle rate each day or week or month. they have the data. then call Dept Revenue and ask if they charge higher state taxes for rural dwellers to cover that cost, or if everyone is taxed the same so that rural people can afford to live out there and travel safely. then call the IRS and ask if they tax rural people at higher rates. then look at their figures and see which state make a net gain from teh feds in total state assistance (hint: mostly rural and southern conservative 'dont tread on me' 'red' states) and which pay more in that they get back (hint: coastal, big govt liberal 'blue' states). who are the moochers? on behalf of the millions of liberals nationwide who pay a bit more to self-supporting conservative states and get back a bit less, and on behalf of the well over a million urban and suburban louisianaians who pay a bit more every month so that you can live your rural delusion, youre welcome!

18) Comment by jedleland - 28/02/2013

why point this out? well it amuses me no end to hear of another conservative refugee from high crime, low quality of life big city BR. in the country, they are free to live off the land, chart their own course, escape city or suburban strife and squalor, and live as true americans, frontiersman even. except - without those city and suburban people helping them out with paying higher rates for things, and without the govt helping them get electricity and internet and all else, they could never even live that life they are so proud of. remote acreage with all the modern conveninces doesnt come cheap. guess who is helping out with the bill? what a joke. conservative? sure. hands out for indirect federal and state tax money and utility subisidies to enjoy that conservative government-free self supporting lifestyle? yup! moochers? you know it! c'mon, christian conservatives. can you not even try to be one or the other, never mind both?

19) Comment by jedleland - 28/02/2013

winnsboro...winnsboro...thats a pretty small town up there, kinda rural. very expensive to run high speed internet lines to much of the area. lots of parts up there still dont have it and use dial up. the parts that do typically got it thanks to federal grants, usually from the USDA Rural Development division. that grant money is funnelled through one of many state govt agencies or quango's, like La Broadband Initiative, La Broadband Alliance, La Delta Initiative, La Cooperative Extension and so on. you see there isnt any profit in spending millions to wire up a small population so the govt pays for it. its been big with the last few presidents actually. it was the same with rural electrification, telephone connections, cable TV etc. pretty much all private utilities are subsidized to provide service to loss-making rural markets. its especially expensve at the installation stage, while after service is turned on, urban and suburban dwellers pay a bit more and the cost of continued service is spread among all users. that way, rural rates for utiltiies or cable or internet are the same as urban/suburban per unit, or minute or kilowat or whatever is sold. only, the rates for the larger populations go up a bit to make up for the losses in the country.

20) Comment by Bouncer - 28/02/2013

Winnsboro? Guffaw. Chuckle. Chortle. Snort. I didn't realize that the internet had permeated backwoods Louisiana. How's that wireless connection there in the trailer park?

21) Comment by jedleland - 28/02/2013

Monroe? thats bible belt country there. watch your back - some of those protestants carry blades!

22) Comment by billynurse - 28/02/2013

Hey Jed , glad to know you support our grassroots org. I go to the meetings in Monroe , since I live in Winnsboro, now....I escaped the enlightened, non-Christian, high-crime, traffic-jammed rat race of Baton Rouge!

23) Comment by jedleland - 28/02/2013

look forward to seeing you at the first meeting billy! take comfort, there are more of nonchristian types around than you think. youre not alone!

24) Comment by billynurse - 28/02/2013

Wow , jedleland ! Bitter much ??...I wonder if you would feel so "enlightened" and above us all if someone murdered one of your loved-ones (as we experienced)(because they were from out of town, couldn't give directions , and the murderer thought they were lying to him because he is black)....Signed- Proud Tea Party member.

25) Comment by jedleland - 28/02/2013

godless socialists gather to sing a childrens song and demand the mass killer be treated humanely. Righteous christians demand blood and vengenace and wish that they could be the individuals to deliver it. which crowd do you think your jesus would hang with?

26) Comment by jedleland - 28/02/2013

now you tell me what our death penalty and the keyboard toughguys who cant wait to flip the switch are doing for us. Remember, these are godless atheist communist socialists - Obama types. coddling criminals and even, get this, forgiving them! and what do they have to show for this mercy? safer streets, safer homes, safer people. Yuk, I can hardly imagine. Better here in our christian utopia of murder, shootings, poverty, gang-banging, crack cocaine, armed school children and metal detectors.. luckily, we have execution on the books to deter all of that. if only the Norewegians did, theyd be a whole late safer today!

27) Comment by jedleland - 28/02/2013

here is a sample: "A sky full of stars. Blue ocean as far as you can see. A world where flowers grow. Can you wish for more? We're gonna live together every sister and every brother. Small children of the rainbow and a peacefull world. Some think it's useless. Some waste the time with talk. Some think we can live of plastic and synthetic food. And some steal from the young who're sent out to fight Some steal from the many who come after us. Chorus: But tell it to all the children! And tell it to every father and mother: We still have a chance to share a hope on earth

28) Comment by jedleland - 28/02/2013

of course, the dude was and is delusional (and already tipped for middle managment in the Tea Party) Joking aside, one of his big issues was a song called Children of the Rainbow, a popular kids song in Norway for years. He thought the lyrics were marxist brainwashing designed to lure kids into accepting communism and , worse, middle eastern immigration. what was the response when he was caught and put on trial? there were a few calls for his execution, roundly dismissed as an affront to the cherished humanistarianism of this godless, heathen socialist people. instead, acorss the country, at one time (including 40,000 in Oslo) gathered to sing the simple naive, idealistic song (much borrowed from Pete Seeger)

29) Comment by billynurse - 28/02/2013

@Jedleland , your ridiculous stereotyping is almost as bad as your spelling.

30) Comment by jedleland - 28/02/2013

interesting example - the norwegian gun nut who killed dozens of teens recently (tellingly, he was an authoritarian figure, despised immigrants, obsessed over guns, identified with far right conservatism, feared 'marxism' and believed himself a freedom fighter against crushing multicultralism and secularism that was diluting his pure norwegian christain heritage with atheism, homosexuality, and islam). Well, he is going away for a long time. in a nice prison with fishing, activities, sunbathing, ping pong, TV, hobbies, the works. he gets his own little suite as well. decent food. the guards are all on first name terms with the prisoners. norway is a peaceful place full of godless socialists and harldy any gun crime. but they do have criminals and psychopaths just like we do. they have bad neighborhoods and drug dealers too. they all get sent to these nice facilities and absolutely no death penalty. the focus is on rehab not punishment. anyone want to compare the rescidivism rate in norway with that of the good ol US of A? how about the murder rate? after all they arent deterred by execution cause there isnt any. anyone? Beuller?

31) Comment by jedleland - 28/02/2013

I reckon the question must have been 'what method of state-sponsored criminal punishment has proven to be error-free (with no innocent casualties or victims), is cost-effective, is embraced by every western or developed country without exception, and reflects the very best of an enlightened and humanitarian culture that rejects vengenace or primitive pre-christian tit-for-tat retribution as a premise for corrective action geared toward a more egalitarian and safe future society?' Its a long winded question for sure, so Alex will probably have it as a daily double.

32) Comment by chem - 28/02/2013

Once again, being against the death penalty is a moral judgement. It has, for me, nothing to do with money, the certainty of guilt, etc. It is simply that killing is wrong. Yes, a murderer did something wrong. Something that most would call the worst possible crime - - taking the life of another human. So if that is so wrong, why then is the response to kill the killer? By doing so, you have committed the same act and are therefore also a murderer, regardless of the trappings of law and "justice."

33) Comment by Bouncer - 28/02/2013

The death penalty isn't the answer? I'm still trying to figure out what is the question?

34) Comment by billynurse - 28/02/2013

The longer that we have DNA analysis , and other advances , the odds of wrongful conviction will become even more infinitesimal... You mean to also say that keeping murderers on a life sentence for 50-70 years with 3 hots-&-a-cot , health care , etc. is cheaper than a timely death sentence ?? I highly doubt that.

35) Comment by Bighug - 28/02/2013

jedleland, do a google search for "baton rouge atheists" and you will find a couple of groups. BRCAA is a good one, with very nice people who are well educated and intelligent. Hope we will meet.

36) Comment by jedleland - 28/02/2013

ive never been shy about my dislike of religion, observing it as a simplistic authoritarian means of artificailly providing security in an unsecure world for those who need such security blankets, and who instill a similar sense of dread and authoritarianist simplicity in their own offspring, as it was instilled in them. i always figured i was in a small minority herein the fearful bible belt (its no cooncidence that places heavily infused with religion tend also to be heavily infused with conservatism, conformism, an idolotry of weaponry, and a strong distrust of education and intellectualism). imagine my surprise to find out that so many commenters at the advocate share my infidel incredulity. that would seem to be the only possible explanation for the often-repeated examples of unchristain vengeance, bloodthirst, and total lack of mercy or forgiveness as required by this least-demanding of faiths. yet every time a topic concerning the death penalty comes up (surely the easiest call any merciful, forgiving, nonviolent turn-the-other-cheek christain would ever have to make) then there you are. i asked a pastor who lives nearby and he agreed that a true believer would never write or post such apostasy and obviously has not chosen the christain path. its comforting for people like me to know there are others who have rejected organised religion. perhaps we can get together some day, over coffee maybe. an informal discussion group perhaps, where we can share our dissatisfaction and disillusionment with religious authority or superstition? let me know and i'll arrange something. look forward to meeting my fellow atheists, dissenters, noncomformists, and freethinkers soon. nice to know youre out there. Ive got yer back!

37) Comment by DMJ - 28/02/2013

Still waiting....

38) Comment by chem - 28/02/2013

How sad that there are still those that want to murder another person under the guise of "justice". That does not speak well of the person or society. Again, with all of the people that have been cleared of crimes who were sitting on death row, surely the state has murdered innocent people in the past and will continue to do so as long as this primitive blood lust continues. Being against the death penalty is not in any way taking the side of the criminal over the victim. What it means is that one does not want to act in the same way as the criminal or a barbarian, thirsting for the blood of another person. That lowers everyone to the level of the criminal. If that's what you want, to be a low-life vigilante, than that is certainly your right. But you demean yourself and all humans by acting in that way. And DMJ is correct, it is mostly the wonderful "christians" that are the most adamant about killing people. Go figure.

39) Comment by Attila - 28/02/2013

The death penalty is most certainly the answer.. It has been proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that the rate of recidivism of those put to death is extremely low.

40) Comment by DMJ - 28/02/2013

Well said, Mr. Upton. The death penalty should be abolished for all the reasons you mentioned...plus others. The bloodlust of those who call themselves Christians is not sufficient reason to keep killing people in order to send the message that killing is wrong. You'd think Christians would be against capital punishment considering... well...you know... You'd think executing the innocent would be something they'd try to avoid. Interesting. Besides, and no one has ever been able to offer a decent response to this point, isn't dying quickly and relatively painlessly after a few years a much more preferable punishment than spending the rest of your life in prison, a.k.a. the worst place on earth? Anyone?

41) Comment by [e-mail] - 28/02/2013

What nonsense; such hubris is an execellent example of what's wrong with society. Whining and bleeding for the perpetrators instead of the victims.

42) Comment by Hello Baton Rouge - 28/02/2013

Upton, get back to us when someone slices and dices a member of your family and then sits in a cell eating and having healthcare provided to him on your dime laughing at the system because he has all the rights in the world while the victim has none. You should have listed your occupation as shoe salesman for added credibility.

43) Comment by nimby? - 28/02/2013

don't you know layers have ethics , there' not in it for the money , that's why they work for free , yeah ...

44) Comment by spqr - 28/02/2013

Death penalty? I vote yes.

45) Comment by tradewinns - 27/02/2013

want to save money on the DP cases? set a fixed fee for lawyers to handle the cases. the fee includes everything from beginning to end. while lawyers love talking about the "innocent", they are highly paid by the taxpayers for EVERYTHING they do. the 20 years average DP stay will quickly become a 1 or 2 year stay and a "bye-bye". there maybe a few people on death row who did not commit the crime they were accused of, however, more have been released NOT BECAUSE THEY WERE INNOCENT, BUT BECAUSE OF SOME TECHNICALITY. the death penalty does not work effciently because it is seldom enforced. we have more murders in a week (probably in a day) than we have executions in a year in the USA. nothing works till you use it.

46) Comment by prbeav - 27/02/2013

This letter is long on its claim but short on evidence.