BESE panel votes to revamp role of school counselors

A committee of Louisiana’s top school board approved a plan Tuesday that critics said would diminish the role of counselors in public high schools.

The vote was 7-2 and followed nearly two hours of often-heated comments.

Under current rules, high schools are supposed to have one counselor for every 450 students.

The proposal that won panel approval would keep that requirement.

However, it would allow local school districts to get around the staffing ratio if they opt to use vendors or others to provide counseling services.

Backers called the change a compromise between state Superintendent John White’s original proposal, which would have eliminated the staffing requirement, and counselors who said that they provide vital services that laymen are not qualified to offer.

The redefined role of counselors was part of a sweeping plan by White, which he said would give school districts more flexibility to set school academic calendars, award credits and other issues.

White told the committee that the overhaul represented a bid to trim the role of the state on a wide array of mandates and give local educators more authority.

“I ask you to consider adopting a new role for the state,” White said.

But some members of the state Board of Elementary and Secondary Education argued that White’s plan represented a massive change that needed more time to review.

Jim Garvey, a Metairie lawyer and a frequent White ally, said the proposal meant that the state was “throwing out a big number of changes” and that more information was needed on how services would be replaced.

A bid by BESE members Lottie Beebe, of Breaux Bridge, and Carolyn Hill, of Baton Rouge, to shelve White’s plan failed 3-7.

Numerous counselors told the committee that the current staffing rules need to be kept intact because students rely on them for dealing with academic issues and personal problems.

“I beg you, I plead with you, please don’t take a step backwards,” said Mary Ballard, a counselor.

Cathy Smith, president of the Louisiana School Counselors Association and a counselor in Jennings, said eliminating the ratio requirement would pave the way for school districts to eliminate counselors.

“Please don’t fail Louisiana students now,” Smith told the Academic Goals and Instructional Improvement Committee.

High school counselors are supposed to assist students on course selections, make sure they are on schedule to graduate and assist in college and career options.

In some districts they interpret tests, grapple with student disciplinary problems and oversee student records.

Louisiana has about 2,300 counselors, according to the state Department of Education.

After the vote counselors who attended the meeting said they were generally disappointed by the outcome.

They said that, while retaining the current ratio was a small victory, allowing non-counselors to handle duties previously done solely by counselors was a clear setback.

The rules governing counselors, librarians, academic guidelines and other issues are included in what educators call Bulletin 741.

“Bulletin 741 drives me crazy,” said Chas Roemer, a BESE member who lives in Baton Rouge and who is set to become BESE president on Wednesday.

“We ought to get rid of the whole thing,” Roemer said.

Even with White’s plan, he said, no one was suggesting any wholesale dismissal of high school counselors.

The full BESE board is expected to approve the changes during its meeting at 9:30 a.m. Wednesday.

Comments

1) Comment by Chucky - 16/01/2013

cbelse1 - Thank you, I had no idea of the classes required and i am impressed with the qualification needed for the job. It seems that every school should have two counselors at least, the ratio of counselor to student seems out of wack. It does appear that not just anyone can do the job, again thanks for the info and helping me understand the professional nature of your job.

2) Comment by Warp7 - 16/01/2013

Jindal and his cronies are out to destroy the education system in Louisiana. bese along with tweety bird Roemer, take their orders from Jindal. The majority have a large yellow stripe running down their back!

3) Comment by Regina Thomas - 16/01/2013

I am so sad to hear that some people think the only thing counselors do is give advice on colleges and make sure they get to the right classes. I suppose people think only of high schools when they think of counselors. What they don't know about is that counselors deal with child protection agencies for abused children, work with principals in dealing with law enforcement agencies, carry the kicking and screaming kids who don't want to be in class because they slept in the steps last night, deal with Special Education and mental health professionals for students who need help,hold those crying children who are battered and bruised, talk to the parents who have children that are failing or children they can't handle and a million other things. AND, let's not forget the almighty testing. Counselors are in charge if test security and making sure no testing irregularities occur -if you understand what that means. Counselors are needed every bit as much for our little ones and much as high school students because they cannot take care of themselves , and sometimes don't have parents who can help them. Please don't degrade the role of counselors unless you have experienced all these things yourself.

4) Comment by cbelse1 - 16/01/2013

@Chucky: I can answer your question about qualifications. To be a certified school counselor in Louisiana, you must have at minimum a masters degree in school counseling, which range from 48 graduate hours to 60 graduate hours; however, the Council for Accreditation of Counseling and Related Educational Programs (CACREP, the highest accrediting agency for this field) is upping their requirements for accreditation by requiring 60 hour masters programs. To put that in perspective, LSU's Educational Leadership program, which trains principals and other school administrators, is a 39 graduate hour program. Why so many classes?? CACREP requires counseling programs to include classes in 8 core areas: 1. Professional Orientation & Ethical Practice; 2. Social & Cultural Diversity; 3. Human Growth & Development; 4. Career Development; 5. Helping Relationships; 6. Group Work; 7. Assessment; 8. Research & Program Evaluation (see http://www.cacrep.org/doc/2009%20Standards%20with%20cov er.pdf for more information). As a 2011 graduate of LSU's school counseling program, I have the same coursework as a mental health counselor that you may find in an agency, hospital, etc.; in addition, I took specific coursework related to educational policy, using data to drive comprehensive counseling programs, and the unique needs of school-age children, including academic, career, and personal/social development. If you think my job as a school counselor is just to schedule classes and help students pick a college, you are mistaken. On a regular basis, I also work with suicidal students, students with emotional/behavioral disorders, students with academic issues and deficits, and students with motivation problems, among many other topics. For some students, we are their only access to mental health services. The days of "guidance counselors," who simply helped high school students plan for their futures, are gone; please read up on the new role that school counselors play in schools and see how you can be involved in ensuring that Louisiana students have adequate access to our services.

5) Comment by Scrooge - 16/01/2013

But that is precisely the point, no experience or education needed to be in charge? What about the superiority of free market principles and social Darwinism, this whole edifice is a travesty. Again, I ask, was not the BESE in board in charge and responsible for the last 30 years or so? Only thing I'll say about counselors and teachers is unless you have been in the schools in the trenches, you don't know what you are talking about. Ideological speculation and political nepotism are the problem, it is a shell game with no hidden nut except for the well connected and financially privileged.

6) Comment by Chucky - 16/01/2013

Scrooge - No experience to be on the BESE board, No degree to be on the board. Like all politicians it is a popularity contest, not the way it should be for a school counselor.

7) Comment by Scrooge - 16/01/2013

What training and experience do you need to be on the BESE board to make serious decisions affecting millions of school children for generations? Is there a degree in this Field ? Haven't they been in charge for decades?

8) Comment by Chucky - 16/01/2013

Noel Hammatt – OK, What training do you need to be a school counselor ? Is there a degree in this Field ? What does the Law and School rules say and not the organization of counselors.

9) Comment by jwarren - 16/01/2013

One thing a lot of people don't understand is that Jindal is out to destroy the good public schools and good school districts in Louisiana along with the bad. If your child is in a good public school in a good school district, Jindal is after them, too. All to pad his resume' for his 2016 presidential run. He cares nothing for your children.

10) Comment by Noel Hammatt - 16/01/2013

@Chucky: again, that is where you are wrong. They are not "going beyond their training." Their training is quite intense. Go talk to some counselors who were trained here at LSU recently, and see if they think they received all that coursework just to help students choose courses. I of course note that all organizations tend to puff their own pads, but come on... your version of a counselor has nothing to do with what schools actually need. I can't blame you for not wanting to understand, none of the leaders in this state seem to understand. Next time you need surgery for a leaking heart valve, just go to a plumber. They know how to fix leaks. Just saying.

11) Comment by Chucky - 16/01/2013

Noel Hammatt – An organization (American School Counselors Association) writing for the benefits of its members and telling everyone how important they are, not very impressive, I would expect nothing less. It seems counselors are going beyond their training and getting into psychology and social work, when they should be consulting students on course selections, and making sure students are on schedule to graduate. I do think school counselors are needed and helpful with specific academic needs of the student. I so not know what is meant by “ non-counselors” does that mean they are not part of a union ? Who can be a counselor ?

12) Comment by jwarren - 16/01/2013

I would also like to ask Chas Roemer why we need a state department of education bureaucracy. If he wants to simply throw all the state rules and guidelines out and "free" public schools from their onerous restrictions, let's start at the top. Let's get rid of the bureaucracy. Let's "get rid of the whole thing." We could start with BESE, And do we really need a high-paid state education superintendent? Couldn't a vendor do that job? Let's start clearing out the dead wood at the top.

13) Comment by Noel Hammatt - 16/01/2013

I appears that @Chucky, like the Superintendent and many of the members of BESE do not really have an understanding of the role of school counselors. Here is a short paragraph from the American School Counselors Association (ASCA) Standards page. Educational reform movements of the late 20th and early 21st centuries, such as standards-based education and the No Child Left Behind legislation, focused on raising teacher quality and academic achievement. Unfortunately, these efforts ignored the emotional, physical, social and economic barriers that can inhibit student success. This is where school counselors make a difference. School counselors are actively committed to eliminating these obstacles and to helping students understand that the choices they make now will affect their educational and career options in the future. More can be found at http://static.pdesas.org/content/documents/ASCA_National_Sta ndards_for_Students.pdf For those who care about the whole child, and not just test scores, and for those who understand that even if you only care about test scores, you should know they are affected by everything that affects the child.

14) Comment by crabby - 16/01/2013

Isn't it (shouldn't it be) a requirement for a scool's accreditation to have counselors?

15) Comment by Chucky - 16/01/2013

How much training can it take to be a counselor ? Assist course selections, make sure students are on schedule to graduate and assist in college and career options. Those are the things that any non-trained parent can do or should do for their child. A four-week course seems like plenty of time.

16) Comment by realworker - 16/01/2013

With all of the changes that have come out and increased pressure on school personnel, the suggestion is to go to "vendors" to provide services. Why should anyone get a degree in education anymore, it won't be worth anything in thing in this state. Unless you get a job with one of the vendors. This is one more way that John White and Jindal are using smoke and mirrors to deflect from their real purpose. Tell the school district that they get to make all decisions, and that way if the state mandated test scores are low, the state had no responsibility for it. Why not let the district decide if they want to give the test and when they want to do it and what will be on it??? If Roemer wants to get rid of Bulletin 741 then get rid of Bulletin 111 (Accountability) too. Instead, we add to Bulletin 111 every other month.

17) Comment by Noel Hammatt - 16/01/2013

@jeffsadow fails to understand the true role of counselors in all schools. For him, as for many so-called "reformers" there is only one reason for students to exist, it seems. That is for test scores. If the counselors are not needed to improve test scores, then do away with them. He also fails to understand that schools are under incredible pressure due to four years of increases in costs with no increases in MFP funding, in fact, the opposite has taken place. Additional costs once paid by the state such as transportation for non-public schools and the cost of stipends (required by law) once paid by the state for Nationally Board Certified teachers and others are now being borne by the schools themselves. What @jeffsadow cannot admit, though many of us know this is true, is that this is just one more area where the Chicaco School Of Economics says, "starve the public sector., and the ALEC-Inspired policies are doing just that. Those of us who have actually taught in public schools and know the challenges that many students face in their lives, would love to be able to provide more social workers and counselors and more assistance with basics, such as some of the things we did in EBR at no cost to the taxpayer. Dental work, eyeglasses, et cetera. Unfortunately, there are many needs in the schools, but few resources. Given the pressure of the deeply flawed accountability system, more students than ever before are likely to miss out on necessary counseling services as school and district administrations, economically starved by the state, will be forced to make painful choices.

18) Comment by jwarren - 15/01/2013

I'll ask again, jeffsadow, how about we start at the top and eliminate all but absolutely essential functions at LDOE? I bet that would include just about everyone at LDOE

19) Comment by cbelse1 - 15/01/2013

Will it, jeffsadow?? I don't see that happening currently; there are way to many schools that don't have an adequate number of counselors or that don't have a permanent counselor at all. Generally, the people in charge of making staffing decisions are not those that work in the school buildings; principals can make requests based on their schools' needs, but they are ultimately granted by individuals at the district level. Then, the principal will be held accountable for their decision.

20) Comment by jeffsadow - 15/01/2013

Accountability will ensure schools hire an appropriate number of counselors. See http://jeffsadow.blogspot.com/2013/01/overwrought-objection-misunderstands.html.

21) Comment by jwarren - 15/01/2013

If Mr. White and our governor want to trim the role of the state in education by privatizing public education functions, then let them start by drastically reducing the size and functions of the state department of education. Let's get rid of that bureaucracy. Consider a new role for the state in that area, Mr. White. Start at the top and cut the dead wood. I'm sure the supporters of Mr. White and Gov. Jindal would have no problem with that, would they?