New EBR school district cost cited

Any push to carve another school district out of the East Baton Rouge school system has to address the financial impact of the schools left behind, a report issued on Wednesday says.

Those costs “cannot be left to the declining number of schools and school children that will remain in the district,” the 23-page study says.

The review was financed by the Baton Rouge Area Chamber and the Baton Rouge Area Foundation.

BRAC President and CEO Adam Knapp declined to say what the study cost.

BRAC opposed a hotly debated package earlier this year that would have set up a new school district in southeast Baton Rouge, which narrowly failed in the Legislature.

The report was done by Jim Richardson, alumni professor of economics at LSU, and Roy Heidelberg, visiting researcher at LSU.

The study notes that the East Baton Rouge Parish school system has long-term financial obligations, including health care costs for former employees that rose by 29 percent between 2008 and 2012, to nearly $35 million per year.

Those costs, and the knowledge that large numbers of employees have over 20 years of service, “should not deter the school system or the people of the parish from changing the format of the schools” in the system, it says.

But how to handle those expenses “does need to be addressed so all school districts will fully share in the financial obligations associated with their new status,” the study says.

East Baton Rouge Parish Superintendent Bernard Taylor, who attended a 30-minute briefing on the report Wednesday, said in a prepared statement that the findings “support concerns we raised when the effort to create an independent school district was introduced in the last legislative session.”

That includes “dire financial implications for our district,” Taylor said, and a negative impact on student diversity.

State Sen. Bodi White, R-Central, who sponsored the Southeast bills, noted that his plan required the new district to provide $2.5 million as a starting point for the East Baton Rouge Parish school system to handle health care and other costs for former employees.

White called that provision a “good faith gesture” that recognizes the issue, which are called legacy costs.

Three school districts have already been carved out of the East Baton Rouge Parish school system: Baker, Central and Zachary.

The concern about costs stems in part from the fact that, if another district is created, the East Baton Rouge Parish school system would have a shrunken tax base.

The report said that, under the current arrangement, legacy costs, such as for health care benefits, total $866 per student in the East Baton Rouge Parish school system. However, that would rise to $1,031 per student if the Southeast district became reality, minus any financial aid to help offset those expenses.

That would rise to $1,231 per student if new districts were set up in both southeast and south portions of the parish, which are scenarios that the study examined.

Richardson noted that a group of troubled public schools taken over by the state, called the Baton Rouge Achievement Zone, could all but constitute yet another district in the parish.

State Superintendent of Education John White said the state would be willing to work on legacy costs for those schools if the issue reaches that level.

Comments

1) Comment by Noel Hammatt - 18/08/2012

@Dawson, yet my comments are. The state's totally dysfunctional "accountability system and its Letter Grades" are actually giving the average citizen even less useful information than ever before in our state's history. It is creating totally false perceptions about the quality of teaching in schools, and the role of schools, teachers, and parents in the education of our students. By playing into anecdotes and "common sense" they pretend with a series of platitudes and phrases to be doing something good. I might have to produce a "T-Shirt" with the garbage they spout on a regular basis. By trhe way, I understand your point about the need for allowing for failure sometimes.... BUT, the system we have in place actually includes TONS of opportunities for failure, in fact, it GUARANTEES them! Have no fear, when it comes to schools and our accountability system, there is no lack of failure. Most of it is totally non-sensical. We need to totally trash the current accountability system. I am all for accountability. The only true "accountability" in our current state system is the name itself!

2) Comment by Dawson - 17/08/2012

@Noel...My comments are not directed at school grades. It is directed at the flaw in our society that has some how tilted to not allowing people to fail or find out the hard way that if they don't make effort and work to achieve they cannot succeed. Today's society expects everything to be "fair" and of course the government will bail you out no matter what your failure is whether it be the auto industry or refusal to work or get an education. Everyone has an excuse on why they can't do something and they sit around and wait on government to save them. Until the government cuts out the "social safety nets" then people will not be afraid to fail and will therefore not work hard enough to keep from failing. The elimination of one's chance at failure only guarantees failure. So forget the school test you talk about and see that educational failure is an extension of allowed failure by government in other forms. We need to get the government out of the way and let people be responsible for themselves.

3) Comment by The_Host - 17/08/2012

Noel- I am surprised by now you haven't learned to copy your 20,000 word dissertations before hitting post and risking losing it all to the censor police. This websites auto checker is worse than net nanny 10 years ago at singling out things not related to anything inappropriate. Not that I bother to read much that you write after a post or two but you might want to try it from now on and then you can just paste it and try to figure out what words it picking out and delete them till you get it right. Its fun like word search games lol. Copy, always copy..

4) Comment by nimby? - 17/08/2012

Noel , as you suggested there is no simple answer . are we learning from our mistakes ? damned if we do , damned if we don't ....

5) Comment by Noel Hammatt - 17/08/2012

Sandy, if you have a few minutes please read the article on "What if "Failing" schools...... Aren't. Found at http://educatorsforall.org/blog/2012/3/8/why-schools-fail-or- what-if-failing-schoolsarent.html Then let's talk! By the way, a study of EBR by the business community found that we had a much shallower structure than any business with our size and complexity. The span of control was much wider than one would find in most businesses. And let's not forget economies of scale. which as you know very quite a bit depending on the business one is engaged in. Much of the cost and depth of a school system is meeting the many needs of special needs children, and keeping up with regulatory requirements, of course. Would love to share some ideas over coffee one day.

6) Comment by Noel Hammatt - 17/08/2012

Ah nimby? But that is not what was being said! I have no problem sharing what you were saying, yet what is missing here is a much deeper conversation, which admittedly is difficult on here. The first three years of life are absolutely vital in preparing children for a lifetime of learning. We cannot ignore that... and what do we do, condemn the children for the "sins" (if such is your take, as some see it) of the fathers or mothers? And nimby? When I taught I can assure you there were students who didn't "get" it. Of course we cannot save every one, yet who wants to take a stab at being omnipotent and figuring out which ones we want to save? I keep reminding everyone, that education begins before birth, and continues long into our lives, I hope I am learning something new the day I depart this world!

7) Comment by Sandy - 17/08/2012

I will grant you that my statement about funding was an oversimplification, but as for the rest of it, I don't know how the EBR public school system could be considered anything but a failure. Granted, I am not a close observer, but I have seen no evidence suggesting anything but that. I am not a public ed expert. I am a businessman, so I will borrow from your argument and use a business analogy. As a business organization grows, the organization structure becomes both wider and taller. These additional layers add non-productive costs. They also restrict the flexibility of the organization by requiring decisions and actions to be passed through those levels of organization. As a result, the organization faces a constant struggle to maintain flexibility and efficiency. Competition forces the business to either maintain its efficiency or it fails. Government agencies (like public school districts), no matter how well-intentioned, have no competition and therefore they have no incentive to prevent themselves from becoming bloated, inflexible and inefficient. Just like every other branch of government.

8) Comment by nimby? - 17/08/2012

sad commentary or brutal honesty ; having to tell children if they don't go to school , get an education , they could wind us just like their parents . I think of how much more time was spent with students who didn't want to learn vs those who did . emotional tug of war . cries for compassion peppered with guilt . there comes a time when we need to realize we cannot save the world because the world does not want to be saved . so we find a piece of it and do the best we can . I'm sure most are familiar with the serenity prayer ....

9) Comment by Noel Hammatt - 17/08/2012

@Dawson: I'll repeat the H. L. Mencken quote: " To every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." I guess I'll just ask a few question, in order that I might better understand your comments. You write [until you cut off the "no one is allowed to fail" and "free" hand outs and make students and parents accountable for their own education none of this will change.] I'm not sure what you mean here. We "fail" students all the time. And there is a double meaning there... at least double,. Students who "fail" to achieve a passing score on their tests in the 4th grade or 8th grade fail that grade, and must return to that grade again. Other students fail to get "passing" grades and they too are "failed" and must repeat the grade. By the way, NO NATIONAL PSYCHOLOGICAL, MEDICAL, OR EDUCATIONAL ORGANIZATION supports the practice we have here in our "accountability system." In fact, all agree that there should be no such thing as holding a student back on the basis of a single test score. Even if it is the same test taken multiple times, and they have good reasons for their position. But we have "failure." Plenty of it. So I am not sure what you mean. Now, you mention free handouts, so let's explore that a bit. If a single mother whose husband died cannot afford to buy her kindergarden-age child the notebooks and the other things we take for granted in middle class families, should we not provide them? Not sure who the "we" is, whether community agencies, the school system, or some other "charity," but it is still, in your mind, a "free handout. So, do we simply require the child to do without? Some will say, what if the mother is using the money she has for drugs, instead of buying school supplies. OK... say that is the case... do we hold the child and say, "sorry, but your mother wasted the money so you sit over here in the paupers corner?" I can understand righteous anger at those who "sponge" at the public trough, but I keep thinking of my mother and her family during the great depression getting bags of flour from the government, and how it enabled them to eat. Many families did, thought they might like to pretend they didn't. "People must be allowed to fall flat on their rears and face their problems on their own." I hear ya, in fact in some ways I might even be "with ya." BUT, it seems it is going to be very difficult to say to children all over this town, sorry kiddo, but you made a really big mistake being born into poverty. Tough luck. I don't think accidents of birth ought to determine the future of children. Adults, well, we can talk other issues, but children? Really? I don't think I could do that.

10) Comment by Noel Hammatt - 17/08/2012

@Sandy: I will go with H. L. Mencken's famous quote. " To every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." Your comment was "The tax base is the people living within the school district. If you remove a portion of that school district, the tax base decreases, but so does the number of students that are being served." Not that simple. Not here in Louisiana, or Texas, or anywhere else I am aware of. How so you ask? In Louisiana, as in every other state, the funding for students in the public schools consists of numerous funding "streams." From the local taxes (the tax base you mention), and the state, and the federal government, and from private and other sources that may contribute, all of these make up the available funding for schools. All of these matter, and they vary from place to place. No schools that I am aware of exist only on a funding stream from local taxes. And actually, there is perhaps another error in your statement when you write, "the tax base is the people living within the school district. "Actually, most taxes in urban areas come from businesses (could be argued they bare people too, but hard to call Exxon's local refinery here in BR "people." But, let us get back to the point about simplicity. The simple becomes more complex when you recognize that local districts don't fund education in their public schools by themselves, and further understand that this is partly due to what some would call biblical principles. Those principles suggesting that that each of us in our local communities, our state, and our nation have some responsibility to the "least among us" or that we are, in fact, "our brother's keeper." Whatever the source of this principle, it exists in the form of a variety of "equalization formulas" in place in states across the country. In Louisiana ours is called the "Minimum Foundation Program" often called the MFP. This formula takes into account certain costs that each district has, and then computes a "local wealth" formula that determines how much the state will contribute to the education of students in each district. Ands this amount truly is quite different from district to district. And, it changes each time you change a district, which resulted in each student in Baton Rouge getting fewer dollars for their education from the state each time a district broke off. But, the COSTS per pupil went up quite a bit, because of long-term responsibilities the District has, regardless of how many students it has. Imagine that you have 10 people in your family, and each of you owns an equal share in the family business, worth 10 million dollars. The business has a long-term loan out that will be paid back in 20 years, and the amount of the loan is 5 million dollars. If you and your brother decide to take your portion of the business away (it is easily divisible, for our purposes here), so each of you takes 10% of the business away. But, for whatever reason the family decides neither of you needs to concern yourself with the DEBT of the family business, what happens? You and your brother are in great shape, Like Baker, Zachary and Central) but the rest of the family is now burdened with a portion of your share of the debt. Before the departure of the two of you, each family member's share of DEBT was $500,000. After your departure, the remaining family members now owe $625,000. In the case of EBR, the long-term debt is over a billion dollars. It consists of some construction debt, and mostly the long-term requirement under state law to support retiree's health care costs. Seldom simple. Other issues are there as well, and one other thing, there is almost no correlation between the size of a district and student achievement, with one caveat, and that is perhaps the one you were making. The largest school systems are, generally speaking, the largest urban areas, and urban areas generally have a higher percentage of students in poverty, hence their scores are often lower than smaller suburban districts. But once you move away from these "super-districts," size plays little to no role in student achievement. Finally, intellectually honest analyses of EBR show that it is not, in any way, "the one large, failing, bureaucratic mess that we have now" that you claim it is.

11) Comment by Dawson - 17/08/2012

Simple solution...until you cut off the "no one is allowed to fail" and "free" hand outs and make students and parents accountable for their own education none of this will change. Stop the hand outs and give an OPPORTUNITY for a hand up. We refuse to allow people to fail in today's society which only creates more failure with government there to catch them on the way down. People must be allowed to fall flat on their rears and face their problems on their own. Until they do, none of this will work.

12) Comment by Sandy - 17/08/2012

It is really very simple. The tax base is the people living within the school district. If you remove a portion of that school district, the tax base decreases, but so does the number of students that are being served. Personally, I think breaking the EBR school district into several smaller districts may be the best thing we can do. Large school districts are usually poor school districts. Several smaller districts might prove much easier to manage and improve than the one large, failing, bureaucratic mess that we have now.

13) Comment by nimby? - 17/08/2012

no , these are issues that need to be addressed , one way or another ; a dark cloud with no silver lining . we should do more than teach children how to pass a test . and I agree as classes structured as to ability vs age . but this can be socially uncomfortable for the older "kids" . I am Lakota , I grew up at Pine Ridge . when I was able I would return to the rez every summer and teach classes in the basics ; reading , writing , simple arithmetic , etc . age ranged from 6 to 60 , parents and their children . the hard part , getting them to attend ...

14) Comment by larago - 16/08/2012

@ MissCotillion: I don't know how much of your response was related to the article, Mr. Hammatt's response, or what happened with the proposed SE pullout. I want to apologize in advance if I misrepresent something you have stated. You suggest that those motivated students who live in our most disadvantaged areas and attend the failing schools be given vouchers to attend schools of their choice. This was the problem that the residence who proposed the pullout had. 75% of the students who attend schools in the pullout area also live in that area. The other 25% are bussed in because they are guaranteed the choice to attend a better performing school. But those residence don't want disadvantaged students bussed to schools in their neighborhoods, attending with their children. As a parent, I know and understand that we want and will fight for what's best for OUR child. But proponents of the pullout would prefer the political battle of separating from most challenged in our city, than work out a way to help ALL Baton Rouge's children. And I'm not saying it's consciously racist, or elitist, or political. But I will say that it is selfish and shortsighted.

15) Comment by Noel Hammatt - 16/08/2012

nimby... are you sorry you asked? :)

16) Comment by Noel Hammatt - 16/08/2012

@ nimby: you raise the most wonderful question, which is about how we reach and teach those for whom the education system (and I DO NOT mean the school system) has failed. What is the "education system" I speak of? Those first few years, years that this state pays almost no attention to, are the most important in a child's life. We are so busy sometimes trying to shame the poor and the downtrodden (think of the school that is accepting vouchers and prior to the intervention of the ACLU was forcing young women who were pregnant to leave the school) that we sometimes forget that when we put in place laws designed to "hold people accountable" that we are also impacting the children of those people. I am not a bleeding heart liberal at all, though some think I am. I am very pragmatic. Young children who are hurt by the actions of their parents, or by the actions society takes against the parents, become adults who hurt others. Just the way it is. We don't have to like it, but it is true. So these children don't get the proper support and education as young children in the home, and arrive at school unprepared socially, academically, and even physically for the classroom. Now, there is NO EVIDENCE that schools can overcome these gaps the children arrive with. So, the education system, which begins even before birth with healthy pre-natal care, and continues with resource rich learning environments in a child's first school, the home, has failed this young man or woman. What do we do? I have some ideas, but first let me share what I believe is exactly the WRONG thing to do. What we should not do is call the STUDENT a failure. Yet that is what we do with standardized tests in schools all over. Then, of course, we take a school filled with students who never received the kind of resource-rich environments we take for granted with our own children, and when this school can't perform a miracle we claim that the teachers are failing, and the school "fails." And all this hurts everyone, and helps no one. And now we want all children to take the ACT, even though we have clear data that the income and race or ethnicity of the student will clearly impact their scores, on average. In fact, the test actually has quite different predictive qualities for different groups, yet we ignore all that and force it on students anyway. Now, what SHOULD we be doing? Throw out the rigid, forced curriculum, "age appropriate" and "grade level" garbage. Figure out exactly where the student is, academically, and build a program of study around that student. For older students, it might be a hands-on curriculum. One of our outstanding Middle School Principals, Phillis Crawford, if given the task without all the ***** of the "accountability" people claim is so wonderful, can turn these students around, most of them. And we need to stop thinking of a one-size-fits-all curriculum for these students. The schools are blamed for not "overcoming the gaps" that existed with these students before they even arrived at schools. Stop the blame game, and quit pretending the "accountability system" is working for them. Work-study is another option, but not the kind most people think of… for me, work-study is more about helping students build something, accomplish something, while also studying the math, the science, the sociology of work and the satisfaction of actually accomplishing useful work at the same time. The work of Elliot Wigginton and the "Foxfire" program in Rabun Gap, Georgia comes to mind. There is so much we need to relearn about education, and about recognizing that the "status quo" of testing, lockstep accountability, does nothing more than recreate and exacerbate the gaps that already exist in our society. Our schools do not create meritocracy. And our highly exalted (mostly by those who have no idea how education works) accountability system is only good for social reproduction. Have I answered your question in part?

17) Comment by Chucky - 16/08/2012

Home school and be done with it.

18) Comment by nimby? - 16/08/2012

Noel , perhaps I too was a bit too broad in my assessment . as a person of color I know and appreciate the value of an education and its' benefits . every child deserves an education , problem is not everyone wants one . you cannot force a child to learn , and if there is no cooperation from the parents , then . a child , by the time they are teenagers should be able to read , write , do simple math . why are children automatically promoted to levels they aren't prepared for ? many of these are good kids who were just passed up the line with little notice . many quit school out of embarrassment . a child that wants to learn deserves a fighting chance , in a positive environment free from distraction . how do we do this ?

19) Comment by Noel Hammatt - 16/08/2012

Hi nimby, I stand corrected, in part. I do believe you painted with a broad brush when you said that any teacher who has taught in EBR would agree with MissCotillion (and I think I know who she is, and won'[t others be surprised!). I know many who absolutely do NOT agree with her, and some of them have been messaging me all day in anger about her comments. Again, I am reminded of the teachers from Highland School who every year walk door-to- door in a very rough part of Baton Rouge off Gardere Lane. It is rough, lots of crime, yet teachers find, as I suggested, lots of parents who care very much about the education of their children. I for one am not at all willing to allow "reformers" to destroy the chance to make a difference in the lives of all children. How do they do it? By totally defunding public education and sending the money into private and parochial schools who have never had any success with those MissCotillion et al have given up on. In fact, private and parochial schools have just as large a gap between middle class students and students qualifying for free meals as the public schools do. There were a couple of very real (and unspoken) reasons WHY they wanted to include "C" schools, and include students from families up to $50 K in the call for charters... and also why they refused to limit or prioritize the vouchers for students who were failing, and in "F" schools. They knew the private and parochial schools did not want those students. I taught at Central and at Kenilworth, and I have been in every school in this parish. Every one. I don't see throw-away kids. But many of the efforts to isolate them will result in horrible things for our communities,

20) Comment by nimby? - 16/08/2012

Traveler , Noel Hammatt , my 1st assignment was Baker Sr , 1973 . I entered the field full of energy , ready to save the world . Glen Oaks and Istrouma Sr followed . I don't think I made any reference as to the color of anyone . I will agree there are a lot of great kids in these schools , working hard for a way out . peer pressure against them is terrible , they are treated with contempt , by their own . how do you get to the 5 or 6 who want to learn when the other 20 are working against you and them ? I've been cursed by students , parents , threatened , my desk broken into numerous times , spat on , car keyed , tires slashed . and about the neighborhoods ; a couple of weeks ago a colleague who is an asst principal , along with several teachers went into 70805 to meet with potential students and parents . a police escort was with them . at who's request I don't know , but apparently someone didn't feel it safe for them to enter alone . it's a cold hard fact the neighborhood isn't what it used to be ...

21) Comment by Noel Hammatt - 16/08/2012

A comment was made about not having a tax base for what I will call "inner-city" schools in North Baton Rouge. Exxon is the single largest source of funding to the school system, and there are several other plants there....

22) Comment by Noel Hammatt - 16/08/2012

MissCotillion and nimby are painting with incredibly broad, racist brushes, not even dimly concealed beneath a thin veneer of caring. So, MissCotillion, are you suggest that all EBR schools are in the "ghettos." Please, feel free to name a few that we might go and explore the communities around them. I might suggest others as well. I suggest what you will find is lots of caring adults whose lives you cannot even begin to imagine. I suspect we will also find some who have given up, fighting the attitudes of people such as yourself, who condemn them with your racism and obvious disdain. In some ways you remind me of the woman who called me when her precious child was assigned to Buchanan Elementary and stated, with vitriol, that "there is no way I am going to allow my daughter to set foot in that horrible neighborhood." She went on to state that there was "no way in h- -- you would allow your daughter to go to school there, with all that violence." I calmly asked her what she meant, and if she had knowledge of violence taking place at that school. Her response was to again repeat, "Have you seen that neighborhood?" I then told her... yes, I see it almost every day, for I volunteer at the school and my children both attended school there. The most violent act I heard about was when my daughter bit (barely) another child who was tickling her and wouldn't stop. (She hated to be tickled, and gave him fair warning.) I tried to refrain from commenting on these incredibly racist posts but I could not hold back. There is no excuse for this.

23) Comment by Traveler - 16/08/2012

Nimby, my experience with inner-city EBRP schools is both wide and deep. I know them ALL. I stand by my statement that there are many disadvantaged youth mired in conditions of poverty who attend those schools----youth who have great potential, given a chance. I have witnessed many instances of desire to learn, hard work, commitment, kindness, and piety in these students. If you are an educator who does not see the worth of these young people, then shame on you, too. If you are not an educator, then it is you who should spend some time in the inner-city schools, getting to know some of these young people personally----I do know them. How hurtful your unfair judgements must seem to them as they read your vile comments. And how discouraging to them as they strive to build better lives for themselves than their parents have.

24) Comment by nimby? - 16/08/2012

Traveler , ask any teacher who has spent a few years in EBR parish , they will agree with MissCotillion , I do . suggest you spend some time as a volunteer at one of these schools , then comment ...

25) Comment by MissCotillion - 16/08/2012

And here again comes the awful MissCotillion: I am simply suggesting that we take our ghetto school district, and it is in the ghettos, pull out the motivated kids via the vouchers and send them to better school, and then we will have a concentration of unreachables and unreachables to deal with. We deal with them by finding unconventional ways to reach and teach them, at the same time shielding normal eighth graders from big hairy 17 year olds sitting right next to them disrupting their classes. Flame away. I am over political correctness. There is no tax base for the inner city ghetto schools!

26) Comment by WhoCares - 16/08/2012

I love how no one likes grades and rankings when they're at the bottom. When they're at the top they love them. The Magnet system is the classic example of this. All these BRHS elitists constantly brag about being the only "A" high school with no care in the world that the rest of the system is drowning. Every single other high school in the system is a D or F congrats. Break it up. ISDs are not evil. Noel is right on the chamber, they lie.

27) Comment by Traveler - 16/08/2012

Miss Cotillion, "tsans" is correct. Shame on you for describing inner-city students as "unteachable and unreachable." You obviously know nothing of those children. While many of them are disadvantaged by family situations of poverty and limited educational backgrounds, there is great potential in the youth of those neighborhoods. Humankind has been pondering for centuries the question, "Am I my brother's keeper?" Clearly, you would answer that question with a resounding "No." Therefore, I won't lecture you with humanitarian arguments----you aren't interested. However, perhaps you will consider the alternative to providing a strong, public education for ALL our children: a sub-class of society that produces street criminals and mufti-generational welfare families. You can't really believe that such societal problems will not touch us all. Every child in the United States deserves access to an excellent education and opportunities to develop his/her full potential. By all means, go to your cotillions, your tea parties, your soirees, and whatever else occupies your time, where you can nurture your bigotry. But do remember the Biblical admonition: "if you did it to the least of my brethren, you did it to Me."

28) Comment by Noel Hammatt - 16/08/2012

@tsans: My removed post was in response to your comments about the chamber. I was happy the Chamber and BRAF supported the study which raises, and sometimes answers, some very important questions. I do agree with your view of the role of an ideal chamber of commerce. I questioned whether such an ideal chamber would threaten to bankrupt a school system if it voted to allow employees to vote on whether or not they wanted collective bargaining. I questioned whether an ideal chamber would choose to attack the school system in ways they knew were disingenuous at times and flat-out lying at others, simply to get their hand-picked candidates elected. I question whether such an ideal chamber would be perceived by the community in such a negative way that there would appear in that community a need for the emergence of two other "chambers of commerce" because groups felt that the chamber did not speak adequately for them. All these things are the legacy of BRAC. Scorched earth was the tactic engaged in by the leader of this group. Lies and distortion. So, there is a reason to question, n'est ce pas?

29) Comment by Noel Hammatt - 16/08/2012

You have GOT to be kidding? I challenge The Advocate to find ANY violation of Terms of Use in the post that I just entered! This is absurd!

30) Comment by Noel Hammatt - 16/08/2012

****Comment Removed for Violation of Terms of Use****

31) Comment by tsans - 16/08/2012

As I was typing my comment, Noel added the next two. I actually don't have any issue with the chamber and I like Adam Knapp a lot. I don't think he is the sinister figure that certain sides try to paint him as on here. It's his job to care about education, b/c that is fundamental to everything else BRAC does. I don't get why they are attacked for doing a study. If they had come out in favor of this pull away district immediately, they would have come under fire. If they had opposed it, they would be under fire. It's my belief that no matter what BRAC does, everyone likes to imagine that it's for deeper, self-interested reasons that it actually is. So they did the smart thing and did more research. I have my issues with certain organizations, too, but I really don't get why anyone would want to perpetuate the idea that the chamber is some seedy, rich people-serving good ole boys' club. It's our chamber. In most towns, people don't feel like their chamber is the root of all evil in the universe. Even if you don't like the leaders of BRAC, the idea of it is good, and if their efforts are supposed to benefit the community, why are people making that more difficult for them? If someone there is such an underhanded criminal that they are poisoning the whole organization, let's call them out. Wouldn't it be nice if we were all on the same side? I bet some people are surprised that BRAC didn't support the Bodi White district, but that just shows that they are not just blindly following their own self-serving agenda.

32) Comment by tsans - 16/08/2012

Noel, I think we are on the same page about this. MissCotillion, shame on you for calling non southeast baton rouge schools "ghetto". That's just as bad as labeling it an F. Like these schools are worthless and we can just write them off and pull our sections of town out, careful not to include any "ghetto" schools. These "ghetto" schools absolutely affect each and every one of us. Yes, this pullaway district might be good for the people in it, but I would argue that most of them will be okay anyway. It's the kids in these "ghetto" schools that will not be okay if we, as an entire community, ignore the situation as it stands. These are mostly kids on free or reduced lunch. They deserve a great education and a positive learning environment just as much as the kids in woodlawn, and I would say that most need it more. We are all going to pay the price for ignoring our inner city school issues. These kids are all members of this community. So let's stop arguing about the things we can't change, join hands, and try to solve the problems as we agree on them. We all like neighborhood schools. And we are no longer under the desegregation order, so we are free to make every school a "neighborhood" school. But then we have to support them as a community. Because there will be inequity in parental involvement and SES levels, we need to see all of these schools (or more importantly, the people in these schools) as important and worthy of whatever we can do to make each one as successful as they can be. So I don't think we need to divide it up, I think this group should just push for the things people like about those schools, like the fact that many are starting to look like "neighborhood" schools and this group can rally around each school in the proposed district and support them as a local, neighborhood-based community by going to the school or donating or advocating. There are things EBRPSS does well, and people often forget that. And Noel is right about another thing, Ds and Fs aren't very helpful for anyone. It's hard to find out why they even got the grades they did. I know some stellar schools that made Fs that are absolutely NOT failing. So please consider these "ghetto" schools and the kids in them, who will be robbing you some day if they don't get a good education and are out of options, hope, or both.

33) Comment by Noel Hammatt - 16/08/2012

Now the question is the role of the Chamber. I might point out that BRAC did not oppose the pullout for all time, it merely wanted to put off any decision until the issues raised in this report were brought up. Those who know my history know I have no particular reason to support BRAC or Knapp. In fact, I have to ask another question that the researchers did not even touch on. It appears nowhere in the report, and that, methinks, is not by accident. Instead of looking at the economic make-up of the schools, the changes any pullout would entail in the percent of students qualifying for free lunch, for example, the researchers limited their presentation and report to the "average" household income in the different districts. To their credit, they pointed out that this was not the MEAN, but the arithmetical average, and was easily impacted by a few very wealthy households. I think they were told to NOT mention the numbers I use all the time, that is the percentages of low income students actually in the schools. Why. BRAC already has received flack for doing an honest study (The infamous White Papers on Education which they later ignored in attacking EBR for political reasons.) which pointed out, and which Stephen Moret, in a moment of ideological weakness reinforced in The Advocate, that the scores of schools are largely related to the poverty within them. There is no doubt that the pullout Bodi White supported would have further concentrated poverty in the EBR public school system. Lots of issues, and intellectually honest conversations to have on them. Ask yourself what interests BRAC and BRAF have in these questions? Ask yourself why The Advocate has never questioned the money trail when looking at "Advance Baton Rouge" and their failed efforts to improve education in Baton Rouge, and ask why they haven't told you who is the only person listed on the "non-profit" registered to take money on behalf of the "Achievement Zone" being touted for North Baton Rouge by BRAC and BRAF. Hint... he is high up in the hierarchy of BRAF, and I think his initials are JS. Follow the money.

34) Comment by Noel Hammatt - 16/08/2012

In seeking to balance competing interests, which actually IS a major part of our politics in this country, we have to ask the tough questions. Do we go with utilitarian notions of fairness, some kind of utilitarian algebra of the greatest good for the greatest number. Or do we look at protecting the rights of those least likely to have the political might to protect their rights? Do we just put it to a vote? How would that have worked for women, before women were given the right to vote. Or for African- Americans enslaved in the South just a few generations ago. Think of the decisions that your school boards had to make over drawing lines. Competing interests? Of course. Your concern as a parent... pretty simple. What is in the best interest of MY CHILD. Imagine if Board Members only voted the interest of THEIR district, or even more accurately, those that elected them in their districts. Follow the money. My fear is that those with lots of money can now buy elections, not only for school boards and our state legislature, but also the judges that are supposed to help balance competing interests while keeping in mind the protections of the state and national constitutions. Now, it appears that positions that people fought to get out of elections are now controlled by the same wealthy elements. We used to elect Superintendents of Education, for example. Now it is the responsibility (at least constitutionally) of the BESE Board. Yet how did that work out? Follow the money.

35) Comment by Noel Hammatt - 16/08/2012

Dr. Richardson and his partner in this project presented a fairly balanced presentation of the very real issues affecting all of our Parish in the even of another pull-out. Having been very much involved with the first three pull-outs I know that the issues are very personal to those affected by these actions. As a School Board Member I was guided by one moral, legal, and ethical consideration, and that was, how to balance the competing interests of all citizens. For Bodi White, it is clear from his use of the issue in his campaigning that a primary concern to him was his political career. In this article WIll Sentell points out that Bodi White included his "good will effort" to deal with the legacy costs by including a $2.5 million dollar "trust fund" and then letting the state determine the division of these "legacy costs." The report suggests that the Southest Districts "share" of legacy costs was int he range of $37 million to $45 million. That part was missing from the article. I should note here that the economists were using what might be a confusing number to come Advocate readers. They use the label MFP to denote the amount the state provides to local districts. That is actually common practice, but incorrect. The MFP includes both local and state shares of what is called the Minimum Foundation Program. The intent of the researchers was to show the amount of basic general fund dollars that would be available for students in each of the proposed districts. It was interesting to note that the researchers used the amount of state support for the Recovery School District as the amount for EBR, which is incorrect, and off by an amount o $178 per pupil, making a mistake at the aggregate level of $7.6 million that they overstated the EBR income under the proposal. Pretty hefty chunk of money. I am surprised The Advocate didn't notice that error.

36) Comment by MissCotillion - 16/08/2012

Why the BRAC opposes the new southern and southeast districts is beyond me. These independent school districts have or will have strong tax bases that come from middle and upper class property owners, who are the working families who support and work for the BRAC members. That leaves ghetto schools in their own district. Motivated parents get vouchers and pull their kids out, leaving the pool full of the unteachable and unreachable, BRAC members and employees of members aren't going to live in those neighborhoods or send their kids tom those schools anyway. Yes, I am cold as ice, but I see the reality here , and we are fighting a losing battle. Once we have the pool full of only unteachable kids, the 17 year olds in 8th grade, then we can deal with them better.

37) Comment by tradewinns - 16/08/2012

what ever happened to the time honored phrase, "it's best for the children"?

38) Comment by yankyny - 16/08/2012

http://www.braf.org/assets/docs/reports/EBR%20School%20Restructuring%20Report.pdf

39) Comment by jdk944 - 16/08/2012

Spqr - I couldn't agree with you MORE!! The Baton Rouge Chamber has become nothing more than a "patsy" for city government and BIG BUSINESS!!

40) Comment by Dawson - 16/08/2012

Why change a thing? We should all be happy that the government is here to determine where our kids go to school. How could we dare mess with the sacred cow "diversity" when we are thinking about the education of our children. EBR isn't to concerned with diversity in the current school populations now so why the change?

41) Comment by spqr - 16/08/2012

Adam Knapp. When his name came up in the article it was time to stop reading and move on. No credibility.