Letters: Religion natural, problematic

Some recent letters to The Advocate have prompted thoughts on the big picture of the human condition. A writer points out Americans are guaranteed the individual right of free expression under the U.S. Constitution. Freely expressed, another has questions as to the seeming bipolar nature of Christianity’s message. Freely expressed in response is the opinion and explanation of why the other guy may not “get it.”

The civilized exchange of ideas is a positive aspect of humanity in general. It seems,though, that the more one gets into details of theological thinking, the more rule-laden ideas become, to the point of stifling the “free” part.

Let’s first put aside the argument that anyone freely chooses their religious preference. The majority of people are born into their theology, as opposed to engaging in actual study and choice. Anthropology teaches that once mankind learned to survive beyond the basics of food and shelter, thinking evolved to more-abstract ideas such as who we are and where we came from. Theology was born to answer those questions.

Mankind worldwide lives under the umbrella of religious idealism, no matter the degree of individual preference or participation. Western civilization is theologically concerned with the God of Abraham at its core, represented mainly by Judaism, Christianity and Islam. But each category is a blanket term for the factions that exist under it. All members of each group do not follow the same tenets.

For example, early Christianity existed in several factions, evolving into the Roman Catholic Church. Protestant ideals were born of free expression in opposition to some aspects of Catholicism.

Protestant theology is further broken down into factions who freely express their own viewpoints as they reinterpret the minutiae of Christianity. The same fractures occur under the umbrellas of Catholicism, Judaism and Islam. And each successive fractionation adds it’s own specific rules as to why they represent the “truth.”

Human beings are intellectual and curious creatures. Faith aside, one must die to learn the reality of any theological premise. Do various and contradictory viewpoints each deserve their own hand in the laws that govern all citizens? Is theological idealism really free expression when one has to follow ever more specific guidelines? Does your free expression trump my free expression because you follow different tenets? Does my being atheist disqualify me from free expression?

It may be paranoia, but right about now I feel some “judge-nots” judging the hell outta me.

James A. Packard

househusband

Baton Rouge

Comments

1) Comment by krl777 - 05/07/2012

As I understand it, the requirement of contraception coverage is a provision of the Affordable Care Act, which has not been implemented yet, so, Triple, you would not see its effects in current coverage by your employer. An exemption has actually been made for Churches and other religious institutions, so the sticking point remains things like Church owned and operated hospitals.

2) Comment by Triple - 05/07/2012

OMK, you could be right, not sure, we have had changes to our coverage. My oldest is 23, finished with school, working full time and remains on my employer furnished policy. Probably should have research before I posted. My apologies.

3) Comment by Old Man Kensey - 05/07/2012

Triple: I may be wrong, but don't the new rules apply to all coverage? I don't think they actually mention that religious groups have to offer these things, it is just being mandated that these items that women need are to be covered. I could be wrong.

4) Comment by Old Man Kensey - 05/07/2012

krl777- very well stated. Thanks for taking the time.

5) Comment by Triple - 05/07/2012

krl777, I was monitoring the debate about the catholic church, it's secular employees and birth control benefits.  I am employed by a large multi-national, and some of the best benefits available, but lifestyle medications are not covered by our prescription plan.  This includes birth control (unless warranted for a condition) and ED med's.  Certainly isn't faith based, but a corporate decision.   If my employer can deny this coverage, seems any other employer can follow suit.  Possibly the reason for not offering this coverage is more relevant than the coverage.  But make no mistake, I am not trying to open this issue, just stating my experience.

6) Comment by chem - 05/07/2012

Let me be clear about where I stand on this subject. For those people who live their lives without trying to infringe on other folks rights with regard to their religion, I say "right on." It is the extreme fundamentalist cults that bother me and it is those same groups that I equate to terrorists. I fully support a persons freedom to worship as they please, or not, if that is the case. Atheism is no more a religion than science. It always amuses me that the extreme sects state that scientists believe in the "religion of evolution." Atheism is the antithesis of religion. Having said all that, I do believe that the world would be better off without any of the religions that, by the way, espouse extreme violence in their teachings. Everyone knows the examples throughout history where murder, torture, genocide, and prejudice were done in the name of religious beliefs. Also, horrendous acts were committed by communist countries that were bereft of religion. However, an important difference is that the atrocities were not committed because of atheism, but rather, the extreme dogma of communism.

7) Comment by krl777 - 05/07/2012

Agreed, Triple, that the principle is a dead horse. But the horse springs instantly to life the second a real-life application arises. For example, what are the civic obligations of the Catholic Church in providing health coverage to non-sectarian workers? Plenty of people have been arguing vociferously about that in just the past month. That debate goes right to the core of the issue of what special privileges we should grant to a religion, out of respect for religious liberty, and what privileges should be denied, out of the need to create a common civic space.

8) Comment by HRoark - 05/07/2012

I am a non-practicing atheist, yet I exist. How is that possible?

9) Comment by Triple - 05/07/2012

krl777, well said, but may I suggest an abundance of caution when using analogies,  even a casual suggestion could gain traction and who knows what may transpire.  Bikinis and BLT's are an American tradition, and are protected by the constitution.  Anyone who disagrees.... well I would question that individual's patriotism.  BTW, this dead horse has been beaten.

10) Comment by krl777 - 05/07/2012

A good case can be made that major mischief results when a single religious sect or religious ideology (and this includes atheism) attains a dominant position in a society, so that the society can be said to be "founded" on it, either originally or retrospectively. Consider Sunni Saudi Arabia, Shiite Iran, the officially atheistic Soviet Union and Communist China, the officially Christian-pagan and race-worshipping Nazi Germany, the officially Shinto Imperial Japan in the 1930's and 1940's, the medieval Catholic Church, the almost-officially Islamic Ottoman Empire. Co-existence of multiple religions in a society tends to make not just a more tolerant society, but a more vibrant and successful one (when they don't dedicate themselves to killing one another). Religious diversity, not just religious freedom, is a good thing. But we do have to insist on a non-sectarian middle ground where everyone can grow up, get an education, live and work without too much interference from other people's religions. This is not always easy. What do you do if some people truly believe in their hearts that science and technology are evil (like the unabomber, or the extreme Christian Right), or that all women must be veiled, by force if necessary? Does our commitment to diversity require us to give ground to such extremists? No. We have to admit that, just as freedom of speech does not mean that you can shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater, so too, religious freedom, and the appreciation of religious diversity, do not require us to sanction those who would outlaw bikinis or eating pork, or those who would mandate that public school history courses should teach Holocaust-denial, or that public school science courses should teach anything other than current science. Extremists will always feel that they are persecuted because people will not let them take over. They are totalitarians -- their religion is the sum total of everything in life for them, and therefore does not leave room for civil society. We must insist on clearing room for civil society and accept that religious extremists will be unhappy with that arrangement.

11) Comment by chem - 05/07/2012

As an atheist, I do not run around proselytizing every time I meet someone. In fact, unless the other person brings up the subject of religion, I do not mention to anyone that I am a non-believer. It is simply no ones business. I do not see atheists on the TV trying to raise money and defraud the masses as do the charlatans that push “christianity” on everyone. If religion can stand up to honest, critical inquiry (which it cannot), then why is it necessary to indoctrinate children when they are young and impressionable.? Why not teach children to think critically, logically, and independently, and then when they are of sufficient age, the children (now young adults) can make up their own minds about whether or not to join a religious group. If that happened, religion would be extinct in not many years. The good news is that the latest polls indicate that religion is on the decline in the U.S., and the world, and those who believe in a naturalistic, secular, and humanistic world view are increasing. Thank God!!

12) Comment by Old Man Kensey - 05/07/2012

For the record, I am not an atheist. Religion and God are not synonyms. I do find it disturbing that atheists are starting to come out more and more, but I believe that is because the more religious among us are using them as scapegoats for all problems that are purely man made. Abortions, failing schools, national debt, secular society, and republicans-- atheist didn't cause any of these things. They all came about, for no other reason, than because people exist. Life is imperfect, problems arise, and solutions have to be worked at with diligence. Just praying to God will solve no problems. God gave us the cephalic region with all those neurons for a purpose. He gave us the ability to study, learn, reason, and understand our surroundings. The overly religious refuse to do any of these things and prefer to fight, accuse and blame anything they can to absolve themselves of the difficulties they bring with them.

13) Comment by Old Man Kensey - 05/07/2012

I've never seen a church of atheism. I have never seen a book outlining the rituals of atheism. I have never heard a hymnal telling atheist to go out and spread the word. The only people who could possibly believe atheism is a religion are the religious fanatics who desperately need an enemy to help them spread their word.

14) Comment by Old Man Kensey - 05/07/2012

Your Brain, are you sure those are Steroids you are taking?

15) Comment by krl777 - 05/07/2012

Mormons want us all to be Mormon. Evangelicals want us all to be Christian. Jehovah's witnesses want us all to be Jehovah's Witnesses. Fundamentalist Muslims want us all to be Islamic. We have seen a more militant strain of atheism in the past ten years (Harris, Dawkins, Hitchens, some on this site), but I have yet to have two atheists come knock on my door to try to convince me to become an atheist. *** We must not exaggerate the difference between an atheist and a religious fundamentalist. A religious fundamentalist thinks that all religions are false except their own. An atheist agrees with this almost totally -- as it is said, an atheist just carries this disbelief in gods one god further. Committed atheists and fundamentalists are distinguished primarily by their conviction that people who believe differently from them are wrong.

16) Comment by RationalOne - 05/07/2012

GoldenSage, I'm an atheist and am about the nicest person you'd ever meet. Why do you presume to know what types of people atheists are? Lemme tell you a little about myself and the other atheists I know. We're married and have kids. We live peacefully among our neighbors. We have normal jobs, normal houses, and normal cars. Our kids go to school with other kids and have several friends. We go out on weekends & have fun. We take vacations. We celebrate holidays. We do good deeds because we have compassion for other people and not out of fear of eternal damnation. We are absolutely normal people who obey the law and don't wish harm on our fellow humans. We want everybody to live together peacefully and not get into conflicts over what god somebody believes in. And if a few of us push our non-beliefs on a few people, that's just a drop in the bucket compared to thousands of years of religious people trying to force their beliefs on us. Finally, atheism is as much a religion as not collecting stamps is a hobby.

17) Comment by nimby? - 05/07/2012

"there is only one true god , my god ! " history doth suggest christians aren't too tolerant of each other . the creation of different denominations , primarily for political reason , each having their own amended bible for convenience . then there are those pesky wars , the crusades , the inquisition . I will say in my lifetime I have never had an atheist force his beliefs on me in an attempt to save me .....

18) Comment by GoldenSage - 05/07/2012

Atheism is a religion, of No-God, itself if practiced as a group or if someone has to claim they are an atheist and has to defend it. A religion is simply a group of people following the same beliefs. A religion doesn't mean they have to believe in God, or a God, e.g. paganism. If someone is an atheist, then why, do they believe they have to promote it unless they have some unknown cause which has to be negative because why would anyone want to hurt someone by questioning their faith unless they have some alternative motive. Atheists are "worse" then the people they protest because they 'no doubt' are wanting to cause hurt and trouble. If you are an atheist doesn't mean you are a nice person. Far from it. God Help U.S.

19) Comment by Your Brain on Steroids - 05/07/2012

Let us review something the author says. "Faith aside, one must die to learn the reality of any theological premise." So are you making the premise that you MUST die to know the reality? Are you making the premise that if you DO die you DO KNOW the reality? I have died, was dead for 9 minutes. No pulse, not breathing, totally ashen gray. I was revived and am alive today. So if we believe what the author is saying then I am an actual authority on the subject...right? Since the writer of the article has deemed me an authority beyond reproach on the subject I will tell you what I am allowed to. Beyond this life, there is another existence. It is eternal and never ending. Those on the other side see and hear what we are doing here on this side. If we would just be humble and trust God there is nothing that cannot be done or solved in this world. Unfortunately there is another "force if you will" in the realm and that is the force of evil. It seeks to destroy all that is good, honest, humble and righteous. The forces of evil seek to enslave you under the guise of providing for your welfare, the forces of evil seek to destroy your soul with abortion under the guise of choice or birth control. The forces of evil seek to limit your eternal life and progression under the guise of intellectualism and atheism. Humble yourselves before your God and you will know all that He will give you and THEN you will have knowledge. As the writer says, you must die first. I have and I KNOW.

20) Comment by ex-louisianian - 05/07/2012

Anyone who uses the phrase "judeo-christian" without any sense of irony is an ignoramus. A previous commenter spells out the reasons why it is.

21) Comment by 1ryben - 05/07/2012

I've been to many funerals of believers and they were all sad affairs too.

22) Comment by lovemykids - 04/07/2012

Hey chem, thanks for the rant. It is a good one.

23) Comment by chem - 04/07/2012

Mr. Packard has it correct in his letter. But as usual, the comments of the religious types have it totally wrong. jdk944 has it completely wrong about the establishment of the U.S. The Founders were not christian. Many were non-religious, agnostic if you will, while the others are more properly classified as deists. They believed in a creator of some kind, but were certainly not christian. That lie has been told again and again by christian apologists. The christians should try to follow their own teachings and quit lying about how this country was founded. I am an atheist, but I don't care what someone believes as long as he keeps it to himself. The problem I have with the religious nuts in this country is that they are trying to turn America into a theocracy and ram their "morals" and bible down the throats of everyone else. I view the religious-right as a greater threat to the U.S. than foreign terrorists, communism, or any other -ism. In fact, I view the religious fundamentalists as terrorists. krl777 is absolutely correct in his comments. Children are brainwashed into religion, otherwise there would not be much, if any, organized religion in the world today. As far as when we die, I already know what is going to happen. So does everyone else. My body will decay to foul smelling amines, aldehydes, and other assorted chemicals. I am going to donate my body to science, after which it will cremated. I see no need to waste thousands of dollars on a casket, funeral, and land to hold a rotting corpse. I know this is a rant, but I get really irritated with the continual lies, misrepresentations (lies), and hypocrisy (more lies).

24) Comment by krl777 - 04/07/2012

England has an official church, the Church of England. And Israel is an officially Jewish state. So they are even more explicitly founded on Judeo-Christian principles, which, by the reasoning of jdk944, should make them even GREATER than the USA. And if Christianity counts as Judeo-Christian because it builds on Judaism, then Islam is also Judeo-Christian since it builds on Judaism and Christianity. Again following jdk's reasoning, this makes the Islamic Republic of Iran a greater nation than the USA. Quite an odd sentiment for jdk to be floating on the 4th of July. If the Founders meant to found a nation on Judeo-Christian principles in a way that would make it more Judeo-Christian than the Christian countries of Europe (the path to greatness according to jdk), then they blew it. They could have established an official Church of the USA, but they didn't. They could have put God in the Constitution, but they didn't. The could have made religion an official test for office in the Constitution, but they did the opposite (Article VI), forbidding any religious test for public office. Are we to understand from jdk that the Founders wanted to make the USA a Judeo-Christian nation but were too incompetent to do so? Again, an odd sentiment for the 4th of July.

25) Comment by Chucky - 04/07/2012

Springer98, more like how to get rid of the trash in a green way. or am i missing something from our atheist friends ?

26) Comment by Springer98 - 04/07/2012

I've never been to an atheist's funeral, but it must be a sad affair.

27) Comment by Chucky - 04/07/2012

if one lives there life by faith, one does not have to die to learn reality. Most if not all “religion” is faith, it proves itself everyday to those who believe and interpret according to their belief’s

28) Comment by JBSheff - 04/07/2012

Brilliant letter, Mr. Packard. Thank you!

29) Comment by RationalOne - 04/07/2012

jdk944, please read the Treaty of Tripoli.

30) Comment by RationalOne - 04/07/2012

Good letter, Mr. Packard. It's so unfortunate that in this day and age people continue to resort to ancient mythology to explain things that science can now explain. And these religious people are indeed extremely judgmental, even though their own Jesus said not to judge.

31) Comment by jdk944 - 04/07/2012

Mr. Parkard, the FACTS are that you are living in a country whose Founders based its formation on Judeo-Christian values and principles - which have been around for thousands of years. And for over 236 years, THAT, has made our country the greatest in the WORLD!! However, that foundation is continuing to be ripped apart by man's arrogance and immorality and we are crumbling from within. But I'm sure you cannot see that because you are to busy with your philosophical theories!!

32) Comment by 8point6 - 04/07/2012

"Faith aside, one must die to learn the reality of any theological premise." True.

33) Comment by Bighug - 04/07/2012

You are right, James. Now you will receive a lot of bible quotes telling you how wrong you are. Isn't it amazing how those who believe in a religion will use the writings of its priests to prove their case? If someone doesn't believe in your religion, they also don't believe in what your priests wrote. Keep your bible quotes to yourself and give us logical reasons to believe what you preach.