Letters: Letter about marriage on target

Charles Allen’s letter of May 15 concerning the definition of marriage was right on target despite the objections of James Traynham (May 17) and Laura Acosta (May 18).

Marriage always has been defined as a social institution for a social end: the nurturing and raising of children. The underlying principle of this definition is that only two people of different genders can produce offspring in the ordinary manner of sexual intercourse. Any other means, whether it is by adoption or any other means, is extraordinary. Therefore these extraordinary means of having children or not having children at all do not affect the definition of marriage.

The primary focus of marriage is and always has been the child. This focus in no way mitigates against the character or the intrinsic worth of those marriages that for whatever reason do not produce children or lead to the adoption of children, as Traynham and Acosta suggest, because they do not affect the definition of marriage.

The underlying assumption of the definition of marriage remains that only two people of different genders can produce children in the ordinary manner of childbearing. Therefore the primary focus of marriage remains on the child.

But homosexual marriages do change the definition of marriage. Instead of being a social institution for a social end (the nurturing and raising of children), it becomes a personal institution for a personal end: self-gratification of the individual. The focus of marriage is no longer the child because two individuals of the same gender cannot produce offspring. Now the focus of marriage becomes the adult.

By changing the definition of marriage in this way, the institution of marriage is endangered because the primary reason for having marriage — the nurturing and raising of children — is eliminated.

However, this is not to say, as Acosta suggests, that an individual marriage is threatened. Gay marriage does not affect her marriage or any specific marriage; what it affects is the institution itself by changing it from a social institution to a personal institution and by changing its focus from the child to the adult.

Fifty years ago more than 70 percent of adults in the United States got married. Then came the 1960s of the “me generation,” with its rejection of marriage and its mantra of “it’s only a piece of paper,” and living together without the benefit of marriage became commonplace and remains so. The end result is that today barely 50 percent of American adults are married. Homosexual marriage could be the final nail in the coffin of a social institution that has been the cornerstone of human civilization for thousands of years.

Kenneth McMillan

retired state employee

Baton Rouge


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Comments (36)


1) Comment by cadabra04 - 24/05/2012

Mr. McMillan is stating that same sex marriage goes against the institution of marriage, because the main purpose of marriage is procreation. His argument that couples who can't have children are still ok just because "it doesn't affect the definition of marriage" makes no sense to me. His definition of marriage is the coupling of two people with the main purpose of procreation. If these two people can't procreate, they are defying his definition of the social institution of marriage. Quite frankly, Mr. McMillan - honey, you've got to stop lying to yourself. You can come up with all kinds of pretty bee-ess, but the fact is you just think it's plain gross. This doesn't mean you should take away another person's RIGHT AS A HUMAN BEING - LOVE and COMMITMENT in a consensual adult relationship. I might think the way you eat your food is utterly nasty, but I won't take away your rights or tell you how to do it.

2) Comment by DMJ - 24/05/2012

Phil follows the Bible. I wonder how many of his neighbors he's killed for mowing their grass on the Sabbath...or eating crawfish...

3) Comment by nimby? - 24/05/2012

DMJ , traditions do exist on this continent . they were here long before the white man . since this did not coincide with traditional christian values war/attempted genocide was committed on a people who only sought to defend their families , homes , their traditions . in order to save the heathen children they were stolen from their families , shipped to christian schools back east , whitened , given "proper" christian names , punished when they spoke their native tongue . for over 40 years I put up with this self-centered hypocrisy . the young voice inside has returned , time to push back ...

4) Comment by RationalOne - 24/05/2012

So if Phil didn't have his bible or his religion, apparently he'd be an immoral psychopath who would go around committing crimes all day long. And I'm sure he abandoned his family so he could follow Jesus, since that's one of the instructions in the bible.

5) Comment by DMJ - 24/05/2012

"The traditional family and traditional morals are the fundamental building blocks of successful civil societies. That's the conclusion I draw from what I know of history and present day society." Only a person with no understanding of history would think something so silly and wrong. We MUST improve our teaching of History in this country. We've got yahoos left and right asserting simply wrong, demonstrably false things regarding history, and they're doing it in order to justify exclusion and discrimination. It's shameful! For those who may have had History taught to them by a football coach who made them memorize dates, let me clue you in: 1. There is no such thing as a "traditional family." 2. "Traditional morals" don't exist either. 3. There is no such thing as a "traditional marriage." These things change over time. Don't believe me? Ask any actual historian or anthropologist. Go ahead.... we'll wait....

6) Comment by Mygulfbleedsforu - 24/05/2012

ScotB, your post seems sincere and thoughful. I would like to point out that those "functioning" and "successful" societies you mention are only functioning successfully for those who are not oppressed by them.

7) Comment by Gradstudent1 - 23/05/2012

And Phil, if it weren't so offensive it would almost be funny when people like you bring up bestiality, incest, and pedophilia when there is discussion of homosexuality!! Do you bring these up when talking about heterosexuality? And a question for Mr. Macmillan, if you become a widow, will you eventually remarry? According to your statements you should only remarry if you find a woman who will procreate well with you.

8) Comment by Gradstudent1 - 23/05/2012

Phil- there is no reason to discuss the Bible for what we are talking about here. The USA is not a theocracy so we are not governed by what the Bible says and discussion of the Bible has no place on the debate over allowing gay marriage. I base my belief on the rights for gays to marry on simple human rights. Allowing gays to marry will not have any detrimental effects on society. Heterosexual marriages (and divorces) will continue, the earth will continue to (over) populate, people will still go to any church they want, etc. NOTHING bad will happen when gays are allowed to commit to a legal marriage. Why do you and others like you think "society" will suffer?????

9) Comment by brian225 - 23/05/2012

Who cares!!!! This is the silliest letter I've ever heard from a anti-gay marriage person. Why do conservatives think gay marriage will have any impact on them or their kids. Gay folks want "marriage" so they can be afforded the same rights the government has provided to married couples. Most of these rights have absolutely nothing to do with children in the first place. My guess is most gays could care less if you call it "marriage" or "civil union" as long as it comes with the same rights. My solution: Leave "marriages" for the church. As far as government goes, there should only be "civil unions."

10) Comment by phil - 23/05/2012

It's always good to hear everyone's view here, even though I disagree with a lot of them. I admit I am religious and (try to) follow a book called the Bible, and God. What I want to know is what book and what exactly do others follow here who bash the Bible, and who wrote the book they follow? I have told what I base my basic beliefs on, so now it's your turn.

11) Comment by ScotB - 23/05/2012

The traditional family and traditional morals are the fundamental building blocks of successful civil societies. That's the conclusion I draw from what I know of history and present day society. I believe the institution of marriage is worth protecting. I don't approve of the gay lifestyle or any of the other alternative sexual lifestyles, but I don't dwell on it either. ****Let people vote their conscience and society choose what it is willing to accept. ****I live without too much agitation every day in a society that accepts abortion as legal, just as my ancestors lived in one that accepted slavery. I don't approve of abortion or slavery, either - but they were (or are) legal here. There is only so many "alternative" lifestyles a moral, functioning society can survive and continue to be successful - in my humble opinion.

12) Comment by phil - 23/05/2012

Let's take normal sex out of the entire picture of marriage and just let men marry other men, women marry other women, men marry their daughters, men marry their mothers, people who love their pets marry their pets etc.. After all, normal sex and raising children has nothing to do with marriage and it is all just about love, right? Open that big can of worms and see what comes out. Oh I forgot, the can has already been opened in some states. When the human race becomes asexual and has asexual reproduction through the evolution process, then maybe same-sex marriage will make sense.

13) Comment by DMJ - 23/05/2012

The "word of God"? What a joke. It's obviously the word of men...which is why it was written down by men in a book....which is also why it's as wrong as often (if not more) that it's right. Think about it....

14) Comment by gofigger - 23/05/2012

I wonder how many of these closet clingers would have come out in the fifties?

15) Comment by nimby? - 23/05/2012

jdk944 , christians also ignore that theirs is not the only religion . I am Lakota , I believe in the most holy grandfather , wakan tanka , and the son who walked with the twelve , sound familiar ? our "bible' tell us the son also visited this land , and walked amongst the people . the chritian bible , word of god , has many versions , each adhering to its' specific denomination , which exhibits the true truth ? as has been said it is up to God to pass judgement , not man . by the way , I have a chiltons bible for a 74VW superbeetle , no reference to gay marriage found yet ...

16) Comment by krl777 - 23/05/2012

Gay marriage is every bit as much a social arrangement as straight marriage, and is entered into for the exact same reasons (which vary from one person or couple to another, just as they do with straights), which can, but need not necessarily, include the purpose of raising children. Where gay marriages are recognized, a married gay person has hospital visitation rights and inheritance rights: that is social. They can adopt children and raise them within a family: that is social. They are liable for debts owed by their marriage partner: that is social. They are legally and financially connected in ways which make the union harder to dissolve than a casual affair: that is social. As Andrew Sullivan emphasizes, gay marriage is a conservative development -- it widens the scope of the stabilizing effect of marriage on the sexual union of two human beings. It has been conceived of as ideally a matter of choice for personal happiness in Western culture since about the 18th century. Mr. McMillan, and others like him, are fake-conservatives. They want us all to pretend that "traditional marriage" is that defined within our own culture within the past few hundred years, when in fact, as others here have pointed out, there are many even MORE traditional definitions of marriage, which are mostly polygynous (polygamous with one man and multiple women) and dehumanizing. Come on, Mr. McMillan: be a true (extreme) conservative: advocate Polygamy!

17) Comment by jdk944 - 23/05/2012

Nimby, just because "Christians" ignore something doesn't change the word of God. Weak comment!! Expected though. SusanneMS - the Bible has been around a lot longer than you. The Founders forever established our nation as subject to the "Laws of Nature and of nature's God" in the Declaration of Independence. They declared that our unalienable rights come not from government but from our Creator. They conceived of government as having the responsibility to preserve those rights for us. They believed that we must all give account to the "Supreme Judge of the World." Finally, they placed their "firm reliance on Divine Providence." However, Scripture warns, "If the foundations, be destroyed, what can the righteous do?" (Psalm 11:3). The Hebrew word means to "break, destroy...overthrow, pluck down, pull down, ruin, and throw down... utterly" (Strong). Our seen and unseen adversaries are waging a full scale, frontal assault upon our true foundations: God as Creator and Author of our political liberties, and our rights to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness (i.e., the freedom to learn, work, save, invest, prosper, and accumulate wealth to serve God and provide for our families). They blindly seek to destroy these and with them the America we have known!

18) Comment by DMJ - 23/05/2012

"Mere manmade laws"? Uh....did I miss something? Other than the laws of physics, are there any other kind of laws? All laws are manmade; we can change them however we see fit.....which is exactly what is happening with gay marriage....which is why the religious nutters are in an uproar. It's like I always say: if bigots are upset; we're on the right track.

19) Comment by A Reader - 23/05/2012

Yes, "Nimby?"---you get the idea, and you make an excellent point: mere manmade laws cannot make it permissible for a divorced person to marry another, and then another, and then another

20) Comment by A Reader - 23/05/2012



21) Comment by SuzanneMS - 23/05/2012

What the Bible has to say is irrelevant, as we do not live in a Christian or Jewish theocracy.I wonder if Mr. McMillan's parents arranged his marriage for him? Or did he make his own choice, and thus became one of those who drove a nail in the coffin of that social institution? According to the Declaration of Independence, everyone, not just those in the majority, is endowed with certain "inalienable rights." That means that the majority cannot deny those rights to the minority. "Democracy" does not mean "majority rules." It means that, as Abraham Lincoln said, the government is "of the people, by the people, and for the people." A "democratic republic" is a form of government in which the people elect representatives, who carry on the business of government, rather than voting directly on every issue.

22) Comment by nimby? - 23/05/2012

'Unnatural acts by people and unnatural laws by government cannot change who may marry: one man and one woman' , then another , and another , and ....

23) Comment by DMJ - 23/05/2012

You can't (or shouldn't rather) let majority rule decide civil rights, the reason why not being totally obvious (what if you're the one having your rights denied by the majority?) That anyone doesn't already know this is kind of sad, really. This is exactly WHY we need strong, benevolent centralized government. We're all Americans, aren't we? Basic rights, like marriage, shouldn't depend on geography.

24) Comment by A Reader - 23/05/2012

Unnatural acts by people and unnatural laws by government cannot change who may marry: one man and one woman. Excellent letter.

25) Comment by A Reader - 23/05/2012



26) Comment by nimby? - 23/05/2012

lot of people not married having children , just sayin ....

27) Comment by warreni - 23/05/2012

@lovemykids: Silly doesn't even begin to describe it. Does anybody get married to his/her partner because he/she thinks, "You know what this person seems like the fittest person I can find and I think I want to have and raise children with him/her." This letter is just another anti-gay marriage screed with opinions masquerading as facts. Simply saying "marriage is for raising children" doesn't make it so. Most people I've ever known got married because they wanted to be in a committed relationship with their spouses not because they seemed like prime breeding stock.

28) Comment by Mygulfbleedsforu - 23/05/2012

@teacherguy - I hope you teach that our style of government is in fact a representative republic, and that one of the primary reasons to have a representative republic is to avoid the very costly mistakes that are often made by mob mentality, aka majority rule. And by the way, please explain what you mean when you imply that states are not in control of their marriage laws. As long as the states' laws are constitutional, I believe the states still govern marriage. As it ever was. If you are aware of something different, I'd love to hear about it. Free speech is a wonderful thing, but it has limits... for example, excessive hyperbole and false information should be kept out of the classroom as much as possible.

29) Comment by teacherguy - 23/05/2012

Why have a democracy if the minority can overturn the majority vote? Why vote? If the issue is put to a vote, then the losing party should not be able to overturn the vote of the majority using 9 men/women in DC (Supreme Court). When the South lost the Civil War, they should have removed all state boundaries because the state has absolutely no power on what it is supposed to (10th Amendment): education, marriage, drinking age, immigration, etc. I think I've become more Libertarian over the past decade in not really caring what others do if it doesn't directly affect me, but I also want to continue our democracy where the people vote. If 50%+1 elect something, then the 49% have more convincing to do. Don't get me wrong, there is a place for a court system...but to let a lawsuit by one person in Spokane, Washington, determine policy for for the nation doesn't seem very democratic. We can't let the sane arguments of the minority overrule the majority until the sane arguments of the minority become the same arguments of the majority. This is why free speech is necessary, but free speech shouldn't be the only catalyst in changing public policy. Ouch that hurt...think I need a nap! LOL

30) Comment by DMJ - 23/05/2012

Another old person in the deep South laments social progress. I'm shocked... Sure, he's in the right state, but he's on the wrong side of history. Social conservatives have NEVER been on the right side of history. Not once. They were wrong about non-property owners being able to vote. They were wrong when they argued against ending slavery. They were wrong when they said women shouldn't be allowed to vote. They were wrong when they said people of color should use "seperate but equal" facilities. And they were wrong when they said people of different races shouldn't be allowed to marry. They're wrong about this. Everyone (who actually knows a thing or two about history) realizes this. Shame on you, Kenneth. Get with the times, bub. There might be time before you kick the bucket to join the winning team... Maybe....

31) Comment by lovemykids - 23/05/2012

"Always defined as a social institution" My understanding of history is that most marriages have been about property, power and succession. The recent views of marriage are rather new historically speaking. It is not an unchanging institution it evolves.

32) Comment by nimby? - 23/05/2012

many things are defined in the bible that "christians" choose to ignore , matter of convenience ? the story begins ....

33) Comment by jdk944 - 23/05/2012

Marriage was/is defined by God in The Bible. End of story.

34) Comment by SuzanneMS - 23/05/2012

FIrst, the "Me Generation" was during the Reagan Era in the 80s. The 1960s were the "peace and love" generation. Second, traditional marriage was arranged by two sets of parents in order to join their families and their property. It included marriage between one man and one woman, one man and multiple women, one man, multiple women and concubines, one man, multiple women and the wives' handmaids, and various other combinations of one man and many women. It was not about "nurturing children," but about ensuring property inheritance. Third, the idea of marriage being a personal institution for self-gratification began sometime in the 19th century when individuals began selecting their spouses on the basis of love, rather than marriage being arranged. Fourth, the traditional Christian marriage ceremony says nothing about children. It is all about the relationship between the two parties. The idea of marriage being primarily about the children is a 20th-century phenomenon that came about after WWII, and was not universal.

35) Comment by lovemykids - 23/05/2012

What a silly letter. How many people getting married do not think about themselves and only think of offspring they may have at some point in their lives? I would think not very many.

36) Comment by beabea - 22/05/2012

Same-sex couples can (and do) in fact have children via the "extraordinary means" you claim in the second paragraph "do not affect the definition of marriage." So you negate your own (faulty) premise. As you do when you attempt to argue that with marriage rates declining, making marriage available to more people would somehow bring about the end of this institution.