Zachary opts out of voucher program

ZACHARY — Bowing to public pressure, the Zachary Community School District won’t accept any students from other, less-successful school systems under the new state voucher program, Superintendent Warren Drake said.

The School Board voted April 26 to accept 30 eligible students next year who would normally attend C-, D- and F-rated schools in other districts: 15 in kindergarten and 15 first-graders.

Zachary has been the state’s top-performing district for seven consecutive years and is the only A-rated district in Louisiana.

School Board members and school employees soon began getting calls from parents and other community members concerned about the cost to Zachary, Drake said Tuesday.

“The deadline for applying was pretty quick, so I don’t think I did a very good job in getting all the information out to the board and the community and explain to them how it was going to be a minimal expense,” Drake said.

Drake said last month the state would award Zachary about $4,000 per child accepted through the Louisiana Student Scholarships for Educational Excellence Program. Zachary now spends more than twice that amount per student, and the state Education Department projects that the district will receive a maximum of $8,843 for regularly enrolled students next year.

Only A- and B-rated public schools and eligible charter schools may accept the vouchers.

The deadline for eligible public schools to apply is May 18.

The students would have been accepted at the A-rated Northwestern Elementary and the new Rollins Place Elementary, but without adding a teacher at either school, Drake said.

“Most people who called were concerned about the finances. That’s what the problem was. They were very respectful, but they were concerned about the money,” the superintendent said.

“When it’s all said and done, it will cost more money, but we thought, after the example we had set with (Hurricane) Katrina with adding 300 kids and not losing the quality of education, that we could lend a hand, even to a small degree,” Drake said.

“But, the bottom line is we work for the people of Zachary, and they were concerned about the cost,” he said.

Drake said the arrangement probably would have added one more student in each kindergarten and first-grade class, but “the final straw was that, next year, teachers are going to have more stress on them than they’ve ever had before.”

Teachers must begin implementing a new, national core curriculum next school year and be evaluated under a new, “value-added” model in which measures of student growth are supposed to make up at least 50 percent of all evaluations. The evaluations also must be done annually.

“We recognize the sacrifices many of our own families make to provide their students with a first-rate education and appreciate the community’s continued financial support of our district,” Drake said.

Since the district’s creation in 2003, Zachary voters have approved $129 million in bonds for a massive school construction program. Property owners are paying 36 mills to retire the bonds, plus 43.2 mills in general school taxes. The board also levies 2 percent in sales taxes.

Comments

1) Comment by QuietRiverRoad - 11/05/2012

Mr. Hammatt, I checked back in just now to see if you had continued your posts. I am pleased that you have. My ignorance of these factors is due to no one talking about them. Thank you. I have learned from your posts.I recall a study done in Russia where infants were swaddled in cloths binding their limbs to their bodies. These infants were then essentially ignored. The result (not surprisingly) was that they learned to disassociate and were non-verbal. No amount of nurturing reversed their behavior. Sad experiment. Unnecessarily cruel. I believe you. I wish you would write this as a Letter To The Editor. I believe you would be well-received. This particular story will be pushed to the back over the weekend and no one will read in here. Please consider a LTTE. Thank you, again. Good job.

2) Comment by Noel Hammatt - 11/05/2012

Read the below paragraph before this one! Neuro-science tells us that from the time of conception until roughly the age of two, that the newly developing brain gores through incredible growth in structure and complexity. In fact, there are more neural connections in your brain at age two than you will ever have again. These connections actually start a process of "pruning" that slowly removes those connections that are not being used. In many low income homes, the paucity of access to conversations between adults, books, travel, and common-place (in middle class families) experiences such as visits to zoos, other regions and places, means that children in these homes are not having the kind of quality experiences that ensure that many neural connections remain that will help these students learn in school, and out. In addition, researchers have found a much higher incidence of mental health problems that in children without these high-quality early experiences. In addition, the stresses of raising children in a single-family home, or in poverty conditions often results in children failing to have the stable and supportive relationships they need. When these children arrive at school, in addition to scoring much lower on any "tests" that are given, they also exhibit more social behaviors that are counterproductive to the environment of a school. How do these increase costs. Let me simplify by pointing out some differences found between schools serving students in poverty versus schools serving mostly middle class students. On average ( it is important to remember this "on average") "higher-income" schools relative to "lower-income" schools have: higher test scores, fewer students absent or tardy, more parental support in the schools themselves, fewer fights and other negative behaviors, fewer students failing, lower rates of special needs students. Each of these, actually result in a lower overall cost in education students. Students arriving at school with higher overall achievement levels and larger vocabularies means that there is less need for "remediation" to get children up to whatever standards are in place. Meeting the needs of students who come to school with mental, emotional, and physical challenges requires specialized help and sometimes extremely small class sizes. More money is needed. Obviously, students who are from financially strapped homes cannot be expected to bring in all the materials that might be needed in the classroom, so either the school, of the teachers, supplement the meager home resources of the students. More money is needed for this. One of the largest financial costs is almost always overlooked, in part because it doesn't show up easily in per-pupil spending charts. Because lower income students, on average, start school a year or two (or more) behind (as measured by Kindergarten "tests" and such) their middle class peers, they are less likely to be "up to speed" for promotion in any given year. On average, they will likely be held back one or more times as they progress through an accountability system that is geared to more affluent national norms. If a district has many students that require remedial help, smaller class sizes, and more one-on-one tutoring, then the costs will be significantly higher for this district than for more affluent districts. When a child "fails" to meet the standard and is held back for one or two years, each additional year adds to the cost of educating this child. Imagine a district spending $10,000 per year to educate its students. 100 students enter first grade and graduate after 12 school years, for a total cost of $12 million to graduate these students. Now, imagine 60% of the students being held back at least two years prior to graduation. In a district with 100 entering first-grade students, spending the $10,000 per year times 100 students times 12 years, with the additional costs for the students having to spend an extra two years, and you have increased costs for the same cohort to $11.2 million. A ten percent increase in costs. And that is without taking into consideration the costs for intensive programs to help prevent all students from being held back. Is it any wonder that in Superintendent John Whites list of 19 of 20 "failing schools" there is an average of over 90% of students qualifying for free or reduced meal prices?

3) Comment by Noel Hammatt - 11/05/2012

A special thank you to QuietRiverRoad and NewsReader for your kind words. I promised to finish my response to Dawson, and I shall do so now. I laid out some of the history, and a bit of the historical and sociological background concerning low-income students and the "free lunch" program, but had barely begun to touch on some important neuro-scientific explanations for just why it is more difficult, and inherently more expensive for schools and school systems to meet the needs of these students from the lowest income homes. It was interesting to note this morning in the Advocate that the "reformers" are calling for $30 million dollars to help the new "Zone" that is the latest brainchild of research-poor reformers. These are some of the same reformers that have been saying "it's not the money, schools have been spending $$$ (insert whatever ridiculous and totally worthless number here) and all we have gotten is failed schools." BUT, the first thing they claim to need when they take over the schools is MORE MONEY! By the way, am I the only one that noticed that there was little talk about all but one of the schools had been taken over several years ago, and they are losing students and dropping scores since they left the EBR school system? The state is taking over "failed" charter schools and then will turn them over to "new" charter schools next year. What was that defintion of insanity they keep using? Forgive me, I digress. I know... I am going to stop this post.... then start a new one to break this up a bit. Because NewsReader makes a great point! Why doesn't the Advocate allow for paragraph breaks?

4) Comment by Libby13 - 10/05/2012

The Zachary School Board voted to accept the kids from failing school districts. Calls came in complaining. Was there another vote? Did Drayke talk to a few people and then veto what the Board voted? What exactly happened?

5) Comment by Whatchange - 10/05/2012

As a parent who's last child graduated from Zachary last year and I still pay my taxes and do so with no problems or regrets at all, I feel Zachary and Mr. Drake are wrong. ZCS has enough surplus money to cover the cost and still never dip into any reserves. Mr. Drake you are wrong. Give these kids a fighting chance Zachary.

6) Comment by QuietRiverRoad - 10/05/2012

My understanding was that it was parents and teachers objecting. Drake seems like someone who would want to help. He really does. I wonder what organization. Yes, Goodwill is a great addition to our city. I do wish we could get some assistance with our traffic congestion there. Please, No Left Turns. It's so dangerous.

7) Comment by Libby13 - 10/05/2012

I was very happy to see the Goodwill store come to Zachary. Now we need actual "good will" to come from Zachary. WBRZ reported some organization filed an appeal with the Zachary School Board about the voucher program. I'd like to hear the Zachary School Board Members speak out about why they voted FOR accepting the students and then how it was overturned exactly. Did Drayke override everyone? There was not enough reported about this issue in my opinion.

8) Comment by NewsReader - 10/05/2012

How I wish The Advocate's IT Department could figure out how to allow paragraphs in people's comments. Very well written opinions like Noel Hammatt's become almost impossible to read without them. I suspect many simply gave up reading it.

9) Comment by QuietRiverRoad - 10/05/2012

On a positive note- Goodwill opened a store in Zachary, today. Cars were everywhere! On a sour note- Cars were everywhere!

10) Comment by QuietRiverRoad - 10/05/2012

Mr. Hammatt, I don't know you personally but I would like to commend you for taking the time to express your views here in this forum. You are correct!- I have never seen your observations in print anywhere through any media in EBR. We perish from not knowing. It's true. I wonder if it's not too late though. I doubt what you write will change minds but it is refreshing to witness such enthusiasm to actually want to educate. All the arguments in the world, from both sides, on every subject you can think of eventually boils down to a quote by John Trudell, " "I'm just a human being trying to make it in a world that is very rapidly losing its understanding of being human." Thank you for trying.

11) Comment by QuietRiverRoad - 10/05/2012

I would be the last one to deny the cliqueness here in Zachary. It's unbelievably true and crosses all lines from our schools to our churches. The blame however should never be upon the children. Kids learn by the examples their parents;teachers, and clergy set out for them. My family goes back #3 generations in Zachary. I wish our leaders would fully realize that there is a right way and a wrong way to set one's self apart. Holier-than-thou is not the right way. Unfortunately it seems to be working for the few who do run Zachary. You hit the nail on the head when you stated Zachary has no soul. I wish it were not true and to a degree it is not true. Yes, the numbers are small but I do see artists bringing openess to Zachary. I do see a couple of "leaders" examining their own biases and I am encouraged. I wish only to make clear that I believe our children are not the problem - Yes, even the boys who cleared the bench. They were wrong as two left shoes but they are led. Not all the boys followed either. I still want to congratulate Coach Yellot and his weightlifting team. Good Coach;Good Kids.

12) Comment by Noel Hammatt - 10/05/2012

Dawson-- Excellent question! First, you use the term "free lunch kids" and I am going to shift it to the terminology I have been using here, for a reason I will explain. I use the term "students qualifying for free meals." We all know the famous line "there is no such thing as a free lunch." For the sake of sanity, if nothing else, we can point out that we understand this, and that we are inferring that the lunch at school is free to this students (at least in terms of the student's family not directly paying for the meal.) Now, lets see why I shift the wording a bit... if I call a student "a free lunch kid" in our culture here in Louisiana, there are truly some "messages" that get passed in that utterance. For the average "person on the street" in Louisiana, there is, in fact, something seen as derogatory. (I am not saying YOU meant it that way, but just that there is baggage associated with it. Something about "the free lunch kid" that somehow associates some negative connotations with it, for far too many people.) Now, back to the question. Why are students qualifying for free lunch "so much more difficult and expensive to education than a kid that isn't on free lunch." The reason why I say this is an "excellent question" in my opinion is that it offers an opportunity to explore a bit of history, sociology, and neuroscience! The student qualifies for the meal on the basis of having a family income that is 130% of the poverty line or lower, based on the size of the family. The Department of Agriculture actually runs this program, and it is a continuation of programs that have their genesis much farter back in our nation's history. We began, in large part, as a nation of farmers, right? In order to help farmers, the government often tried (not always successfully) to develop programs to help the farmers. That is, those who owned farms and sold their production. During the depression, the markets had collapsed, and so many programs were developed to help farmers, and indirectly (one could argue directionality here) low income families across the country. My mother's family, for example, was one of the vast majority of families that directly benefited from the "commodity" programs. Sacks of wheat flour that were purchased by the federal government to help keep farmers afloat were then given out across the country to help people eat! Other commodities such as cheese and other farm crops were included. Now, the "subsidies" paid to farmers slowly began to benefit larger farms and commercial farming operations, but that is another argument, for another time. At any rate, the populations of people across the country were happy to get these "subsidized" products for free, and used them to raise our generation. We seldom look back in our own family histories and accept that "our" families received welfare assistance. When I attended St. Aloysius school, I loved the rolls, and the famous peanut butter and honey mix in the little cups. I know I am a bit unusual (others use more derogatory terms at times) but I also loved the stewed prunes that they served in our cafeteria. By the way, all of these used commodities made available for free or reduced prices by the Department of Agriculture. So, the idea of free or reduced price meals is not new, now has it historically been a program for minorities, and in fact throughout the US today whites are the biggest beneficiaries, by far, of these programs. In Louisiana you are correct about "minorities" being the largest share of recipients. Of course, the term "minorities" is a bit misleading, since non-whites are the majority, as a group, in Louisiana's public schools. Nonetheless, let us proceed. These students qualify for free lunch by virtue of having family incomes below the federal guidelines to qualify. In and of itself, there would be no reason to think that having lower income at home in any ways makes it harder to teach these students. So let's explore why it IS, in fact, on average, more expensive to teach students coming from these homes. Think of family income as a "proxy," if you will, for a set of factors that exist more commonly in low income homes than in homes of more substantial financial means. What are these factors, and how do they impact education . In no particular order: these students are much more likely to come from single-parent homes; they are less likely to have an actual house (or apartment) that they live in for extended periods of time without moving; they have fewer books in the home; they have inferior health care on average; they are much more likely to suffer from malnutrition or food instability; they are less likely to grow up hearing lots of words everyday spoke by adults around them; they are less likely to travel, to go to museums, to the zoo, to concerts or to the theater. All in all, the average student from a home living in poverty is much more likely to come to school with a lower vocabulary, with fewer educational experiences likely to be associated with positive outcomes in school, and, quite literally, with far fewer neural connections or "pathways" in their brains. Now, we all have anecdotes about the individual who grew up poor, with a single mom who worked three jobs to make ends meet, and who succeeded beyond anyone's wildest dreams. I accept that... as an anecdote. An important caveat follows, though. An anecdote is not the antidote to the very powerful patterns that exist in the research and data that clearly show that these "risk factors" I mentioned above do, in fact, play a heavy role in lowering the achievement of students who come to school bearing fewer educational resources and experiences than students from more advantaged homes. They arrive scoring incredibly lower on all measures than students from middle and upper income homes, and the fact that the neural pathway development was impacted means that it takes much more work to overcome these gaps. In my next post (they keep cutting me off, for some reason) I will explain how these resource "deficits" result in higher costs to a district.

13) Comment by Libby13 - 10/05/2012

And I'd venture a guess that the school board received a few calls from a few influential people. The school board had already voted to accept 30 children through the voucher program. Well the voters of Zachary elected the school board but apparently majority vote does not matter. As I've said, a few people in Zachary really run Zachary. It does not matter what the majority say. I ask the school board, HOW MANY CALLS DID YOU RECEIVE BEFORE YOU REVERSED YOUR DECISION? And from whom? Maybe you can send home a form with all students of Zachary for the parents to fill out to really see how the parents of Zachary feel about this.

14) Comment by Libby13 - 10/05/2012

Jobbyb - Oh, I am well aware of the arrogance of many teachers, coaches, and members of the school board of Zachary. I know that the situation has gotten worse over the years. As soon as my youngest child has graduated, we are selling our house and moving. It is not only the school system of Zachary that has major issues. The police force seems to have missed the day they taught civil rights in school. Zachary is a very cliquish community, very cookie cutter, and if you dare to show any individuality or freedom of thought, you are vilified and outcast. The sports programs from the youngest kids on up are run by a few select Zachary veterans who have the power and do not share it. I personally witnessed boys try out for the middle school baseball team a few years ago who COULD NOT HIT THE BALL but whose parents were in the clique who magically made the team over kids who whacked the ball with every pitch. It is obvious and sad. The schools are beautiful but they are as superficial as many of the people. Not beautiful inside. Zachary has no soul. That's why we should welcome children who are stuck in failing schools through no fault of their own and try to help them. Maybe that would help bring some heart back to Zachary.

15) Comment by Dawson - 10/05/2012

@ Noel or any other...I keep reading about the free lunch kids. Why is it that a free lunch kid is so much more difficult and expensive to educate than a kid that isn't on free lunch? Furthermore, the vast majority of free lunch kids in LA are minority so again, why are minority kids so much more expensive to educate than non-minority kids?

16) Comment by QuietRiverRoad - 10/05/2012

Jobbyb- I certainly agree that Zachary could use some good PR. So in that much has been commented (understandably) on the ZHS Baseball story, here is a positive story: On April 21 the Zachary High School Girls and Boys Olympic weightlifting teams led by Coach Robbie Yellott captured their third straight State Championship title. I assure you these kids are not arrogant- they are very dedicated. The Coach of any team leads by example. Great job Coach Yellott!

17) Comment by CountryBoysCanSurvive - 10/05/2012

To MistyStar HOORAY FOR YOU. Because of you your kids will always thrive in life...congrats

18) Comment by jobbyb - 09/05/2012

Honestly I don't think many. I truly believe, maybe falsely, that 90% of teachers want to engage the kids and make them better people and learn. I'm sorry for your experience but rest assured that will probably not happen to anyone else! Have a great evening.

19) Comment by MistyStar - 09/05/2012

Jobbyb...yes,sadly, that could be possible....but how many parents come to teachers with a willing spirit just to have it crushed and not knowing where to turn....its just a bad situation from all angles...I digged for resources to help my child and I pass that info on the other parents.....and I know some parents may not have the time or knowledge...its just a sad case.

20) Comment by jobbyb - 09/05/2012

MistyStar maybe this was one of the very people you were referring to! She may have been a single mom with kids trying to do better and had a bad day at school. Is that a possibility here?

21) Comment by MistyStar - 09/05/2012

This probelm is bigger than just shuffling students to different schools....Years ago, everytime I would attend a Open house event in EBR, I would suggest open communicate between the parents and teachers....just a email once in a while to let me know whats on the agenda for the upcoming week...and I would use that info to work with my child over the weekends....The straw that broke the camel back: once again I suggest more communication with the parents and this one teacher looked at me and said, "I dont do that, I have a night job"....Lady, I'm not concern about your what you do at night, its your day job I'm talking about!

22) Comment by jobbyb - 09/05/2012

Libby I agree with you. But your school system has shown extreme arrogance in the past few weeks that will make everyone take a serious look at it. If you haven't read all of the articles and posts concerning the baseball team maybe you should. It's not very pleasant!

23) Comment by Libby13 - 09/05/2012

I wonder how many phone calls the school board received in opposition? They changed their minds because of a few phone calls? How do they know how the majority feel about this? They only know how the most vocal feel. Perhaps there is a better way to make this decision. I live in Zachary, own my home, and have had children in Zachary schools for the last 10 years. Two have graduated and one is still in high school so I am very familiar with the system here. I personally do not blame the children in failing school districts for their lot in life. It is not their fault their parents cannot afford to move to expensive Zachary. Moving at all is expensive. If the citizens of Zachary can do something to help a few less fortunate children or even ONE less fortunate child, then out of decency or charity or citizenship or just plain humanity, I feel like we should. We are fortunate and have an opportunity to help innocent children receive a better start in life. I think the people who called complaining should search their hearts. Helping a few children will not hurt anyone and will only make the world a better place.

24) Comment by jobbyb - 09/05/2012

Noel I knew in the end we would agree because I knew you understood. Education starts and ends at the home, not the schools! My wife and I are both educators and love it. I wish your family nothing but the best, and even more I pray for the kids that have parents that don't care about their education or future!

25) Comment by Noel Hammatt - 09/05/2012

jobbyb-- it is not that I am "basing the facts on Simpson's Paradox" at all. It is that Simpson's Paradox provides an explanation for how one district can have higher scores for all subgroups, and still have a lower score. You can see how the numbers came out, right? Even though the district with more poverty had students in each category that did better than the wealthier district, their overall score (the District performance Score) was lower. The schools in that district are not failing at all. You and MistyStar are getting very close to the elephant in the room that no one in the state's "reform group" wants to touch. it is not about what school your child attends, is is about the sum of all experiences that a child has, and the most important of these experiences take place outside of school. About 83% of student achievement can be explained by factors outside of the schools. When I point out that the correlation of the percent of poverty in schools in Ascension to each school's School Performance Score (SPS) is over a negative .95, (it is negative because as the % of poverty goes up, the SPS goes down, in almost a perfect relationship) it illustrates that factors outside the school are incredibly powerful. It is important to note that this does not, in any way, imply that students from low income homes cannot achieve at high levels, it is simply a statement about what currently exists in the relationships in Ascension. You are MistyStar have got a better sense of where we need to be going that almost all of the so-called "reformers" in this state! We need to look at improving conditions in the homes and communities of our children, all of them! Thank you for caring enough to comment here!

26) Comment by jobbyb - 09/05/2012

Ok, so now I understand. You are basing these facts on Simpson's Paradox Theory. Well...... sorry but I don't buy it! Your socioeconomic population is what it is. You can't change the rules to fit your agenda and that all the "SPT" does for you. Not changing the facts that the parents, as a whole, are failing the kids in EBR!!! Obviously not you, but it still is a fact.

27) Comment by MistyStar - 09/05/2012

@JobbyB, so true...we kinda dont want to say it, but we failed as parents. But I do believe that there are some good parents out there that are just struck.... and most likely it is the single parent, trying to make ends meet working two jobs with no family system in place to fill in the gap....@Tea_slayer, my son going to the 9th grade taking 5 honors class and when he was in the 7th grade his ACT score was 21....So Zachary not wanting "undesireable", is so untrue "its that woe is me" mindset that's undersireable.

28) Comment by Noel Hammatt - 09/05/2012

Jobbyb-- actually, your statement that "the ACT scores should be above the national average" is a non sequitur. That is to say, that being above the national average for each of the subgroups I mentioned does not mean that EBR's ACT scores are above the national average. And the reason why, is the same reason that your statements about being 17th in a "bad" state summing it up are misguided. If you look up "Simpson's Paradox" you will find that the definition and explanation explains perfectly WHY Louisiana is near the bottom in the "rankings" of states. To put it simply... if that is possible for such a complex phenomenon, you need to understand that, for example, students in poverty score, on average, two years behind students from middle class families, on average. (This is a fact, on nearly every standardized test.) Now, imagine two states, one with 60% of its students in poverty, and the other with 30% in poverty. Imagine a test where middle class students on average score a 100, while students from families in poverty score two grades lower (the two years behind) or a 60 on the test. Now... the "wealthier" district's middle class students score a 100, while its students in poverty score a 60. So, the average score of the district as a whole (simplified, for illustrative purposes) is equal to 30% times 60 and 70% times 100, or an average score of 88% for the whole district. Now, the "poor" district actually outperforms the average score for each group, with students coming from families in poverty scoring a 70, and middle class students scoring 110. The overall average for this district, according to your logic below should be higher than the wealthier district's score. Let's do the math.... average score = 60% times a score of 70, and 40% times a score of 110 equals an average score of........... 86. EBR can, and has outperformed many other districts for each subgroup, but Simpson's Paradox, and the fact that EBR has many more students from poverty, means that other districts with lower scores for each group can still outperform us in this State's accountability plan, which does NOT take into account any of these facts. Up till now, NOT ONE MEDIA OUTLET HAS TRIED TO EXPLAIN THIS... and we have to ask, whose interests are being served? By the way, the number of 230,000 students who are "below grade level" in our state. Hogwash.... pure, unadulterated hogwash, useful only for propaganda purposes. Hope this helps....

29) Comment by jobbyb - 09/05/2012

MistyStar You are exactly what I am talking about in all of my posts! Good for you and better for your kids!! But the school system didn't fail them, it was the parents that weren't as involved as you! Your kids would have been fine in EBR but you did something better for them.

30) Comment by MistyStar - 09/05/2012

I notice the downfall of EBR school system 7 years ago. At that time I work hard with my kids teaching them at home, just to ensure them greater chance of enrolling in a magnet program and at the first opportunity I moved to Zachary. My heart breaks for the kids because the EBR school system failed them. But at the same time, It starts at home. Just reading to your child 15 minutes a day does wonders. Instead of buying a 6 year old a ipod and the newest pair of Jordans get them a book instead. If my child struggle in a course, I went to the Louisiana Book Supply and bought the same books use at school and work with them at home, until I was able to move to a better school system. I just want to encourage some of the other parents with kids still in the EBR school system.

31) Comment by ScotB - 09/05/2012

I certainly believe Zachary is concerned about the "cost", but not in dollars.

32) Comment by jobbyb - 09/05/2012

So, the ACT scores should be above the national average? I haven't honestly looked, but I have my doubts. If the system is 17th in a bad state that pretty much sums that up! I agree about the Chamber, don't care about the Advocate honestly, this is a very contrived move on their part! If you look at my earlier posts you will understand that I DO NOT blame the schools or teachers. I have no doubt that they are performing in an admirable fashion.

33) Comment by Noel Hammatt - 09/05/2012

jobbyb.... the long-term costs are not "blamed" on anyone. All districts that have retirees, especially older districts, have such costs. No blame, just fact. As for the communities pulling out? Lots of complex issues involved, but certainly the lack of any true sense of "community" writ large plays a big role. EBR is actually 17th in the state in the true quality of the education it offers its students. The state accountability system is incredibly simplistic in not taking into account where students are when they arrive, and failing to measure their growth while in the system. Cognitive dissonance is likely a big reason why the media refuses to ever, every publish research which shows these facts. One has to wonder why the Chamber and the Advocate would call for the legislature to turn down the request for a new pull-out, when they have been at the forefront of a myth-information campaign for many, many, many years. By the way, on the ACT, EBR's White students have consistently outperformed White students in the state, and in the nation, and EBRs Black students outperformed Black students in the state, and in the nation. Same for Asian students.... but you have NEVER read that in any local newspaper or Chamber publications or on the news. It's true. The facts, and the fact that the media here is our communities worst enemy sometime.

34) Comment by jobbyb - 09/05/2012

And as far as the long term cost you can blame that on the lack of foresight of the lawyers, school board, advisers, and everyone else that EBRPS waists money on!!!

35) Comment by jobbyb - 09/05/2012

So Noel, where do you put the blame for the communities pulling out? That's the question here. They wouldn't have done this if it weren't a necessary step to educate their kids in a better environment.

36) Comment by Noel Hammatt - 09/05/2012

I was going to "stay out of it" but I just can't help it... too much myth-information out there that needs clarifying and correcting. 1. Zachary does have the lowest percent of students qualifying for free lunch in the state. It certainly helps them achieve their position as number one, as there is an incredibly high correlation between the percent of students qualifying for free lunch (roughly poverty level, actually 130% of poverty level) and the district performance score. 2. Legacy costs do, in fact increase the cost of educating students in EBR, but no one on here, or in the legislative session that I observed today came even close to correctly identifying WHAT "legacy costs" are. The single largest legacy cost is the district's cost of health care premiums for its retirees. Let me make it simple. Before Baker, Zachary, and Central pulled out, EBR (which was the entire parish's public school system) had a large pool of retired employees. By law, we have to support those retirees with health care. Remember, they helped educate our students across the parish, for many years. The current estimate of the long-term liability for their care (which is actuarially determined) is over 1.5 billion dollars. (Yes, with a "B.") When Baker, Zachary, and Central pulled out, they should have been required to pick up their fair share of those long-term costs for which their communities had benefited. A failure to have a fair and equitable distribution of those long term costs is morally indefensible, and it does in fact result in a higher long-term liability for every citizen still in the taxing zone of EBR. It also means more spending per student (around $880 per pupil this year) that does not directly impact the education of each child. Obviously, things like paying for the transportation costs of parochial school students and paying for retiree health care premiums do not directly impact student achievement. (Zachary's pullout increased the per-pupil spending for EBR, just as the pullout of Baker and Central did. If Southeast Baton Rouge forms yet another district, and does not pay its fair share of legacy costs... they will increase in the first year of the pullout to about $1138 or more per pupil in EBR.) 3. There are many reasons for not accepting students on vouchers, and most have nothing to do with perceptions about race or quality of students or anything like that. the fact is, taking in students in Kindergarten or 1st grade implies a commitment to keep them until they graduate. That means that somehow you are asking Superintendent Drake to predict 13 years out what the student enrollment figures are going to be? In Massachusetts they had an Inter-district transfer plan... some districts thought, "hey, we;ll just fill up empty seats and make money." Not realizing the impact down the road when they were having to build extra classrooms and even schools to take care of local growth that was not anticipated. 4. Zachary has been the highest performing school district in the state since the first year they had scores. At that time, the vast majority of the students had been EBR students during most of their education. It was predicted that Zachary would be number one in the state..., Why? Three things.... they already had the highest performing students in the parish, before the pullout; second, they had the lowest percent of students qualifying for free lunch in the entire state, and three, they had the lowest percent of students requiring special education services. None of these detract from the accolades that Zachary gets as a great school system. They all help though. Big-time!

37) Comment by jobbyb - 09/05/2012

And you can't legislate that!!

38) Comment by jobbyb - 09/05/2012

Once again everyone is focusing on the schools and the teachers. When will everyone wake-up and realize that it has nothing to do with what you spend per student, on the schools etc.... Failing starts at home!!! Without quality parenting nothing else matters!!!

39) Comment by Dawson - 09/05/2012

@Ovation...So, these legacy and special needs cost constitute $78 million per year? With 43,000 students in the EBR system @ an additional cost of $1,819 per student that is one heck of a bill for legacy and special needs kids. Really? How many teachers can there be that are left over and how much do they actually cost the system? I'm sure EBR has many more special needs kids because they have many more students. I do not know the percentage of students in each district. With that said, there is no correlation to the amount spent and the quality of an education.

40) Comment by ovation - 09/05/2012

The a majority of the students who enter the magnet programs are students who are labeled as Basic. These teachers work with the students and parent to get their scores up to Mastery and Advanced. Sherwood Middle is one of the top 3 best middle schools in the state of Louisiana and has been recognzied nationally as a model school for the nation. They have consistently proven that their model works. Our new superintendent has spoken on using programs that are at Sherwood and other magnet and gifted schools and replicating them in the traditional schools. Change is coming. Dr. Taylor is a reformer, half of the school board are reformers and with the new Value-Added method for evaluating teachers and the new Common Core Standards, which will change the types of questions asked on state assessment test coming, things will change. EBR was not that far from being rated a C school district (not something you may think is important but is is growth and it continues to show growth. The EBR school system has shown major GROWTH over the past few years after they were released from the deseg case. This growth will continue. The state is changing how schools and district are going to be graded. They are taking out components like absenteism that bring down schools scores and focus more on academic acheivement. I foresee there will be schools that will amaze some people. I did ask for Zachary to let the world know how it does what it does and the answers I have been getting focuses on parental involvement. You know, it sure is hard to legislate parental involvement yet schools are measured by how much there is of it. I think if we could get a leader for our parish/state/country that will say it like it is and tell those that won't to move out of the way so they can then education would show improvement.

41) Comment by ovation - 09/05/2012

@Dawson: Your comment about Zachary spending less per student than EBR is misleading. This cost to educate each student doesn't include only the actual costs of educating the student. Dollars that are also included in this cost are the legacy costs that EBR still pays and will continue to pay for EBR teachers who left their system and went to Zachary. This legacy cost includes things like insurance and retirement. Also included in this cost are the special programs that are mandated by the government for special needs students. EBR student total of special needs students is a lot higher than Zachary school district. So you cannot look at just the overall cost and say that one district is doing its job so much better with less money. You have to look specifically at what each of the cost actually are.

42) Comment by Dawson - 09/05/2012

@albermarle52 - When you say "We don't like your kind around here." You must mean non-Zachary tax paying residents. What other "kind" would you be referring to? I can see why the tax payers at Zachary would be opposed to offering what they have built and paid for to outside residents who haven't paid for it. But, at the end of the day, if they can help 30 or 40 kids get out of the failure that is the EBRSS then it is worth considering in my humble opinion.

43) Comment by nimby? - 09/05/2012

the quality of a school is determined by a dedicated faculty , commitment to education , students desire to learn/work ethic , parental involvement . any responsible , caring parent is going to want/do what's best for their child . Zachary has achieved a noted level of success , perhaps they'd like to maintain it ...

44) Comment by QuietRiverRoad - 09/05/2012

I remember in 2003 when John spearheaded the Zachary School District. Though he served as a police officer and Mayor, I believe first and foremost John Womack was an educator. He saw the utter failure of the EBRSS and eventually the failure of the Baker SD and he knew Zachary should and could do better. He was right. No matter how anyone feels about the Zachary SD, there is little doubt it has been and continues to be a success. Leadership is vital to any success. John was a visionary. EBRSS needs leaders who think outside of the proverbial box. Maybe you are one of those potential leaders. Run for office. Make a noise. Make a difference.

45) Comment by Tea_Slayer - 09/05/2012

CBCS, what truth? nimby, they share classes with the "undesirables" (that Zachary does't want) outside of their gifted classes. Not really sure what you are getting at. the gifted and talented programs are offered to ALL EBRPS students.

46) Comment by CountryBoysCanSurvive - 09/05/2012

to: duckylove...whew, they are attacking you in full force. Seems like they don't like to hear the truth, hang in there. to: albermarle52...you are correct, we don't ....nuff said.

47) Comment by nimby? - 09/05/2012

same classroom ?

48) Comment by Tea_Slayer - 09/05/2012

nimby, the gifted programs are housed in schools with traditional students. They ARE available for all.

49) Comment by nimby? - 09/05/2012

we are all familiar with the success and popularity of EBRs magnet schools and gifted programs . any thoughts on opening their doors to the general public so that they may share in this success ?

50) Comment by Duckyluve - 09/05/2012

@Dawson that is why I refuse to vote Yes for any taxes for the EBR System. @Tea Zachary educates their kids and having a huge failure rate is not a problem, like it is in EBR.

51) Comment by Duckyluve - 09/05/2012

Thats the problem. You have 3 and 4 generations of families that have never held a job and been living totally off of the Government. All they are doing is sucking the budget for every dime they can get while sitting at home having more kids than they could ever afford on their own.

52) Comment by Tea_Slayer - 09/05/2012

Aw Ducky, you cant dispute what I said? So you resort to "keep drinking the kool-aid". That is so typical of someone who thinks they have the facts but are proven wrong... " its[sic] because EBR wastes money on kids that they know will NEVER graduate" So what does Zachary do? Kick them out to keep their numbers up?

53) Comment by Dawson - 09/05/2012

@Duckyluve..If that is the case then EBR should be looking to itself for savings of the waste instead of asking the taxpayers to fund more so more can be wasted.

54) Comment by Dawson - 09/05/2012

What is often left out in the debate about "poor" is the fact that the "poor" is always changing. Very few people stay "poor". Although the percentage of people living below the poverty line may not substantially change (even though the government has wasted trillions fighting poverty), the actual people making up that percentage does change. Every society will have poor and always will, what differentiates the USA is one's economic ability and opportunity to move up the rungs on the economic ladder and remove one's self from being "poor" while having the freedom to ascend to any level of economic achievement. Short of mental or physical disabilities that hold some back, any person can succeed in the USA if they wish to make the effort to do so.

55) Comment by Duckyluve - 09/05/2012

@teadrinker-Keep drinking the EBR koolaid, its working well for you. @Dawson- its because EBR wastes money on kids that they know will NEVER graduate and programs that only cater to the person holding the job.

56) Comment by Tea_Slayer - 09/05/2012

Well there you go. Having a few honors classes is not even close to the same thing. Shows your ignorance. I have researched it. Sorry to disappoint you

57) Comment by Dawson - 09/05/2012

Since every liberal progressive argument cries about lack of money in education, how about this: Zachary, according to the article spends $8,843 per student while Education.com says EBR spends $10,662 per student. How is this possible if its all about the funding? I state again, there is no correlation in the amount of funding and the success of the student.

58) Comment by Duckyluve - 09/05/2012

Well there you go. Shows how ignorant you are on this topic. Zachary has Gifted and Honors classes. Maybe you need to do some more research.

59) Comment by nimby? - 09/05/2012

there is no crime in being poor , not doing something about it is a different matter . Zachary has found something that works for them , may not work in other areas . community school , parental involvement , students dedicated to getting an education . Westdale is a fine school with wonderful programs , parental involvement , students dedicated to getting an education . will Westdale be accepting voucher students ?

60) Comment by DMJ - 09/05/2012

This is EXACTLY why vouchers are a bad idea. Sure, some people will be for them, in principle....but when it comes to it possibly affecting them personally, they assume such effects will be negative and are thus against it. What you end up with is hypocrisy. Vouchers are ok for some schools....just not mine! Not in my backyard.... mine, mine, mine, mine, mine.......

61) Comment by Tea_Slayer - 09/05/2012

"Zachary doesn't want to put up with under achieving students whose parents see little value in an education , you're probably correct ...." Really, i though the vouchers were about giving a choice to parents who want a better education for their children. Hmm, I wonder if underachieving means something different in Zachary. Poor, maybe?

62) Comment by Tea_Slayer - 09/05/2012

and who do you parrot, Duckyluve? I personally speak for myself after careful research, not knee-jerk reactionary BS.

63) Comment by nimby? - 09/05/2012

in response to the accusations Zachary doesn't want to put up with under achieving students whose parents see little value in an education , you're probably correct ....

64) Comment by Tea_Slayer - 09/05/2012

He attends Westdale Middle. Does Zachary have gifted? No. My child would be bored to death waiting for the other students to catch up if he were in Zachary. I have friends with children in Zachary. Great looking schools.

65) Comment by Duckyluve - 09/05/2012

Sure thing

66) Comment by beans&cornbread - 09/05/2012

@ Duckyluve...if you’re going to comment on the stupidity of other people, you might want to know the difference between your and you’re.

67) Comment by Duckyluve - 09/05/2012

If your going to be stupid you better be tough!!!

68) Comment by HMaltravers - 09/05/2012

The elitist always have their way.

69) Comment by Duckyluve - 09/05/2012

Teaslayer you dont have a clue what your talking about with respect to Zachary Schools. Its obvious that you've never set foot in one and are only repeating what one of your liberal friends told you to say.

70) Comment by Duckyluve - 09/05/2012

What school does he go to?

71) Comment by Tea_Slayer - 09/05/2012

My son is getting a much better education where he is, which is not a cookie cutter, one size fits all classroom like they have in Zachary. But thanks for your (faux) concern

72) Comment by Duckyluve - 09/05/2012

I doubt very seriously that many people from Zachary or Central advocated for vouchers? Why would they? Instead of muddying the water why don't the "poor" schools clean up their own mess instead of getting someone else to do it for them. Its nothing more than the "something for nothing" way of life. So call "us people" whatever we want. If were so bad why would you want your kids to go to school with us?

73) Comment by Tea_Slayer - 09/05/2012

Well, Grannee, I was out of town the week that the Advocate reported on that fact so I did not post. Thank you for your concern about which topic I choose to post comments. Are you implying that I (or the other two posters) gave Christian Life a pass because it is a private/parochial school? And Scrooge did comment on the article. ---http://theadvocate.com/home/2429625-125/fractured-future

74) Comment by Grannee - 09/05/2012

Albermarle, Teaslayer, Scrooge why didn't you guys complain when Christian Life opted out before Jindal signed the bill? The sad thing about the voucher scheme is, the only schools that will accept them will be schools with financial problems and are low performers. Of course, parents won't know this because private schools don't have to disclose this information.

75) Comment by albermarle52 - 09/05/2012

Not a good PR move for Zachary. It basically says "We don't like your kind around here."

76) Comment by Tea_Slayer - 09/05/2012

Duckyluve, Here are the facts. A good indicator of the socioeconomic make-up of families in a school district is the percentage of students eligible for free or reduced priced lunches. Louisiana average - 67.2%, EBR School District - 82.2%, City of Baker School District - 77.8%, Central Community School District - 51.5%, Zachary Community School District - 44.9%. See the pattern? You people are SUCH hypocrites. Advocating for vouchers then pulling this NIMBY bull when it would mean letting the "undesirables" into your school district. - http://www.doe.state.la.us/dag/ for the district info

77) Comment by Duckyluve - 09/05/2012

To the people that think Zachary is made up of a majority Middle to High Upper Class students don't have a clue what your talking about. Obviously Zachary has figured out how to educate Their kids, how many years have they been #1 in the State? Im with CountryBoyCanSurvive,,,,,if you want to go to Zachary Schools then move to Zachary and help pay for your kids education instead of sitting at home and have someone else do the work for you.

78) Comment by Grannee - 09/05/2012

This administration had the answer to Louisiana's failing schools and it would not have cost one red cent. All they had to do was adopt Zachary's model and implement it. My grandchildren are in the Zachary school system. The partents and extended families of these children support them. My daughter and my son in law are involved in their children's education. This is how it is in Zachary. If my daughter and son in law can't help my grand kids, they hire a tutor. They do not wait until it reaches the critical stage before doing something. Scrooge there is a magic formula and the above is it. Parents have to be there for their children and they have to support them so the teachers can be free to teach.

79) Comment by Scrooge - 09/05/2012

Zachary has not discovered the magic formula, it is very simple- they have a majority of middle to high upper class students, probably due to the lack of private schools in Zachary. Any representation that Zachary has discovered a magic formula is a lie. This is making a mockery of the school reform legislation, however.

80) Comment by DMJ - 09/05/2012

So...Zachary won't accept students from underperforming districts. I guess their way of doing things is so good they don't want to share it with those less fortunate. How very Christian of them.

81) Comment by ovation - 09/05/2012

Kids are kids no matter where they are. It goes back to the first and most important teachers of our children are the parents. Zachary has found a way to get parents involved, a way to get the communtity to vote for higher taxes to support the school system. This is their claim to fame. It is not that their teachers as a whole are that much better than EBR or any other school district's teachers as a whole. Every system has bad apples. Of course, those apples are the first that the media puts out their for the public's consumption. So I challenge Zachary's school system and its citizens to share their secret for getting parents into the schools, getting their community to vote for more taxes. And the reason can't be, "get your school scores up", because then it becomes which came first the chicken or the egg. Come on Zachary, tell us your secret...the state is begging you. SHARE!

82) Comment by Frustrated - 09/05/2012

Jindal and BESE misled the public into thinking that just offer the A schools vouchers and you can walk right in to the promised land. The A schools don't have to accept other schools problem students. By the way, it's not about racism. The Zachary community has black families whose students attend Zachary schools. It's about a school system that has raised the educational bar and the community supports it. They expect nothing less. I applaud the people of Zachary and the school system for having and maintaining high expectations and meeting them.

83) Comment by Tea_Slayer - 09/05/2012

"Vouchers give parents a choice. Oh wait, they want to come to my district? Too bad" This is comedy gold.

84) Comment by ovation - 09/05/2012

@SuzanneMS: Class sizes? We are only talking about 30 kids for the entire school system. It was not about class sizes. It was about a one public school district taking another public school system's students with the voucher program that was sold to the public for public school students to attend private or parochial schools.

85) Comment by CountryBoysCanSurvive - 09/05/2012

If the parents of these children want them to go to Zachary schools, then move to Zachary, pay Zachary taxes, shop at Zachary businesses, adhere to Zachary morals, get involved in your children's school life and home life.

86) Comment by whodat70816 - 09/05/2012

I'd bet the people of Zachary were amoung some of the strongest supporters of Jindal's education bill that was ultimately passed and signed. That created the very voucher system they now want no part of. LMAO....when other communites start opting out of the voucher program all we'll be left with is the same failing public school system that existed before this reform. Don't get me wrong, I don't blame the people of Zachary for not wanting there A school to slide....but I do find the hypocracy of supporting a plan that you know you want no part rather funny.

87) Comment by Scrooge - 09/05/2012

So the whole voucher choice thing loses its credibility in the first few days and is shown for what it is-smoke and mirrors, if not cow patties

88) Comment by QuietRiverRoad - 09/05/2012

Superintendent Warren Drake serves at the pleasure of the citizens of Zachary. I believe him to be a fair-minded individual and in no way should he suffer reproach. Mr. Drake is not at fault here. Fear was the primary motivator in this decision which ultimately was made by parents and teachers. Fear is a powerful thing. The powers-that-be in the EBRSS are the real culprits. The BOARD should be swept out completely and start with members who do not bicker and reduce themselves to the level of the children they are actually not helping. Blame should not to be placed on School Districts which are proven successful. That is simply sour grapes. Having said that, I am disappointed that #30 little children and their families have just lost an opportunity that could have changed their lives immeasurably. As for the issue of costs - NO, I don't believe it. Zachary has a surplus of funds because we vote every Tax our SB asked for. FEAR is what this is about and I suspect it has a great deal to do with the newly proposed SD. FEAR is a mountain.

89) Comment by Duckyluve - 09/05/2012

You got it Suzanne, along with very strong Parental involvement.

90) Comment by SuzanneMS - 09/05/2012

In other words, the people of Zachary recognize that smaller class size is one of the key elements in providing a quality education.

91) Comment by Duckyluve - 09/05/2012

Let the racism accusations begin!!!!!!!