Revisions needed for retirement system overhaul

Advocate staff photo by Travis SpradlingSenate Retirement Committee chairman Elbert Guillory, left, D-Opelousas, congratulates House Retirement Committee chairman  Kevin Pearson, R-Slidell, after Pearson's legislation that would create a new retirement plan for future state employees cleared the Louisiana House last week. Guillory and Pearson are Gov. Bobby Jindal's legislative floor leaders on pension issues. Pearson's bill heads to the Senate for debate while the Senate Finance Committee on Monday takes up Guillory-sponsored bills changing retirement rules for current state employees. Show caption
Advocate staff photo by Travis SpradlingSenate Retirement Committee chairman Elbert Guillory, left, D-Opelousas, congratulates House Retirement Committee chairman Kevin Pearson, R-Slidell, after Pearson's legislation that would create a new retirement plan for future state employees cleared the Louisiana House last week. Guillory and Pearson are Gov. Bobby Jindal's legislative floor leaders on pension issues. Pearson's bill heads to the Senate for debate while the Senate Finance Committee on Monday takes up Guillory-sponsored bills changing retirement rules for current state employees.

‘Heartburn’ reduced, sponsor says

“All along  they have told us  they don’t intend  to put us in these bills and they lied.” Mary-Patricia Wray, legislative and political director for the Louisiana Federation of Teachers

The state Senate Finance Committee will be asked Monday to significantly revise Gov. Bobby Jindal’s proposed state employee retirement system overhaul, according to the Senate sponsor of the bills.

The proposed rewrite still would require most state employees to contribute more and work longer for reduced benefits but the changes would evoke less “heartburn,” said state Sen. Elbert Guillory, Jindal’s Senate pension floor leader.

Guillory said proposed changes would include:

  • Reduce from 3 percent to 2 percent the increase in contributions expected from state employees; and spread the implementation over a four-year period — a half-percent at a time.
  • Phase-in, a month at a time, using the average salary over a five-year period, instead of the current three, to calculate a retiree’s pension benefit.
  • Add to those groups of employees that would be exempted from changes in retirement age restrictions as well as adopting retirement ages based on years of employment.
  • Implement all changes on July 1, 2013.

Jindal’s proposals cover more than 60,000 members of the Louisiana State Employees Retirement System and higher education members of the Teachers Retirement System of Louisiana. Judges and hazardous-duty employees would be exempt.

Jindal said the pension law changes are needed to start addressing the long-term liabilities of Louisiana’s four statewide retirement systems, which are creating a drain on the state budget. He said the situation needs to be stabilized for the benefit of the state as well as pension system members.

Jindal’s package primarily targets only one of the systems — LASERS — that the state has underfunded for decades.

The LASERS and TRSL boards oppose the Jindal retirement package, claiming altering pension terms unconstitutionally breaks contracts state government employers made with their public employees.

The Senate Retirement Committee approved the bills in mid-April.

Guillory said the legislation was shipped to Senate Finance so the proposed amendments could be added prior to the bills hitting the Senate floor for debate, which could as early as Wednesday.

Actuarial notes accompanying each of the measures — Senate Bills 47, 52 and 749 — indicate there would be state expense, including legal costs of court challenges.

“We wanted to have a hearing on them. We want the people of Louisiana to be able to see them and read them at least a day or two,” said Guillory, D-Opelousas. Offering the changes on the Senate floor would have been “too confusing,” he said.

As the legislation moves to committee, LASERS released a new analysis by its actuary that concludes that more of its members would be paying more into the system than they would get out in pension benefits. LASERS executive director Cindy Rougeou said that makes the employee contribution increase a “payroll tax.” Last year, former House Speaker Jim Tucker, R-Terrytown, concluded it was a tax and required a two-thirds vote.

Rougeou said not only are legislators constitutionally barred from considering taxes in the current session, but tax measures cannot originate in the Senate. The state constitution requires tax measures to start in the state House.

LASERS actuary Shelley Johnson compared the employee contribution versus the career average cost of the benefit with and without the proposed 3 percent employee contribution increase.

For most LASERS employees — those hired before July 1, 2006 — Johnson found that 67 percent of members would pay more than the career average cost of their benefit. Those employees currently make a 7.5 percent contribution.

Meanwhile, 62 percent of LASERS members hired after July 1, 2006, when retirement benefit rules changed, would pay more than the career average cost of their benefit, Johnson found. Those employees currently make an 8 percent contribution.

Johnson said that means that a majority of employees would be subsidizing other people’s benefits.

“There are more constitutional issues that are presented,” Rougeou said.

Guillory said it is “a stretch” to call the proposition a tax. “We expected a variety of procedural techniques to try to torpedo these bills ... but they would hate it a lot more if we do nothing and the systems crash and burn.”

“This is a free country. People have a right to question the legality, validity of these bills,” Guillory said. “What we are going to do is pass the best possible bills and we will let the judges and the lawyers sort out these legalities.”

Meanwhile, teachers union and retirement officials rejected an overture to include kindergarten through grade 12 teachers into the pension law changes.

A proposal floated in a behind-closed-doors meeting would have increased K-12 teachers contributions by one-quarter of 1 percent, moved to a five-year final average compensation benefits tally, and changed retirement age eligibility, said Mary-Patricia Wray, legislative and political director for the Louisiana Federation of Teachers.

“All along they have told us they don’t intend to put us in these bills and they lied,” Wray said.

Guillory said the offer was made because of potential benefits to the teachers. He said he has no plans to include teachers if they don’t want to be a part.

This story was updated on May 7, 2012 to correct Mary-Patricia Wray’s name.


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Comments (24)


1) Comment by whodat70816 - 08/05/2012

@WhoCares....What part my mentality puts Louisiana at the bottom of any list? For you to even come up with such a conclusion from anything I posted only speaks volumes about your mentality. It is that very lack of logical reasoning, reading comprehension and total disregard for your fellow man...all of which you posses WhoCares that drags this State to the bottom on every major list. I guess you didn't like me pointing out your flaws WhoCares...but to that I say...WHO CARES?

2) Comment by WhoCares - 07/05/2012

Whodat70816 you mentality is why LA is a perennial bottom of the ranks placeholder. Unbelievable.

3) Comment by for real - 07/05/2012

BJ says the retirement system is a strain on the budget, Actually the strain and drain on the budget is all the tax breaks HE is giving to billionaires. LASERS needs to challenge every word, comma and period in any of the ALEX/Jindal AXIS of evil laws passed under the banner of reform, REFORM, RIP OFF is more like it.

4) Comment by IMVOR - 07/05/2012

The Jindal administration and legislators lied? Shocking!

5) Comment by gingles - 07/05/2012

@Slayer Thanks, I'm sorry to say I've read some of the drivel on his blog. I'll wait for him to take me up on my proposed wager however, on how the courts decide.

6) Comment by Tea_Slayer - 07/05/2012

Iamhopeful2 and gingles, don't expect honest debate from jeff. He comes here, drops his lie filled post and runs away. he actually promised to sign the recall petition if anyone could prove that teachers take a subject specific certifying exam. Well, a teacher proved it and I am almost 100% certain jeff hasn't signed the petition to recall Jindal (on whom he must have a crush by the way he defends him)

7) Comment by gingles - 07/05/2012

@ no1zson Due respect, but we did get our "own" retirement system. It's called LASERS and the funds there belong to the retirees. Under the constitution of mine and your state, we contracted with the citizens of Louisiana for a retirement that would be guaranteed by that Constitution if the terms were met. The state and the citizens are essentially debtors now to that system and we the members of LASERS are your creditors. Now the state would like to break that contract for convenience and have the creditor pay the debt of the debtor. no1zxon, try and get that deal from your mortgage company. Tell them you still want the house but you want to lower your payments. Contracts are legal promises and they are meant to be kept, either by our legislature and governor, or by the courts, if needed. BTW, you do know the average LASERS annual pension paid now is just over $21,000, with not Social Security to fall back on. Please read before you comment.

8) Comment by gingles - 07/05/2012

@ Jeff Sadow Are you really a faculty member at a real university? My alma mater, no less? You need to research (heard of that term?) what a tax is. When a class of citizens (LASERS members) faces a levy which provides them no additional benefit (i.e., no benefit), it really walks and quacks like a tax--a fee for which not direct service is provided. Indeed, information has been provided that under current contributions, most state workers willl already pay more into the retirement system than they will receive in benefits. You know, true scholars do not label their opponents in honest debate as reprehensible or as extortionists. Finally, on you point of "lawsuits they cannot win", just watch. Better, let's wager each other on the outcome. I'm game. Are you?

9) Comment by Warp7 - 07/05/2012

@no1son...get real. The other responders to this person were right on on in what they said. Some seem to think that once a person becomes a state employee they loose all their rights. Wrong, state employees, are US Citizens have have the right as anyone else to stand up and be heard when they think they have been wronged. The only right person who happens to work in the government sector looses is the right to certain political activities. The sponsors of these bills are Little Hitler's lap dog. Makes one wonder why a democrat sponsored a major bill for a republican. What has Guillory been promised? Is Guillory planning to change parties or is he a repub in democrat Clothing? Voters need to rembrandt this turncoat at the next election. The one who is going to benefit from the state changing to a 401k plan is the company Little Hitler plans to give a multi-million dollar contract to. The private sector went to 401k plans to avoid paying a livable pension to their employees and to increase to I crease their profit margin. 401k plans are extremely risky and since they are realitively new have not proved to be a viable means of retirement. You could possibly end up with zero retirement. The double edge for state employees is that Little Hitler Jindal does not want the stae employees to receive social security benefits like everyone else in a 401k plan. Reason, State would actually have to make it's payments when due. The retirement system is in the shape it is in as a direct result of people like Jindal and the legislation sponsors. Citizens approve the dedication of funds to certain areas and our politicians use it where they feel fit.

10) Comment by whodat70816 - 07/05/2012

@no1son....Oh please. It is the public (non state workers) who are the spoiled kids. You along with every other louisiana citizen enjoyed the benefits of the money the state was supposed to pay into the retirement systems and spent on something else. Do you think I-10 and I-12 would be getting new lanes had the state not redirected money from the retirement systems to go towards their matching highway funds? You non state workers think all of the things that make your life here in LA much easier just falls from the sky....and then whine and complain when the bill is due. You (and those like you) are the spoiled brat that got to enjoy 40, 50 years of benefits from the state not paying its bill and want to somehow justify your idiotic stance by reflecting your own behavior on to the very people you and the state are screwing. State Workers WORK for the their benefits. State workers do have their own retirement plan...they got one...do you? I suspect you do not....I bet your 401k balance is ZERO and because you are finally coming to the realization that you will have nothing, you want others to suffer the same faith. State workers contribute 8% to their retirement. Never missed a payment. Just like your employer can't just take the money from your 401k (remember ENRON, laws were passed to protect your 401k), the State should not be allowed to touch State Worker's retirement. No1zson.....you are nothing more than the spoiled brat you accuse state workers of being. You have zero comprehension of what is actually going on, yet you somehow feel cheated or being taken advantage of....while it was you ant the rest of your moronic fellow LA citizens allowing the State to ignore its obligations, because it benefited you at the time. Well, it is time to pay up. It is time you stop living off of the money that belongs to state workers and state retirees. If that means you have to sit in tracffic on the interstates, because there is no more money to add any more lanes until the State's bill (UAL) is paid....then so be it.

11) Comment by Grannee - 07/05/2012

No1zson, I don't want your pity. What I want is to be treated fairly. We are bound by Louisiana's constitution to pay into the LASERS retirement system. We do not make enough money to pay LASERS, social security and get our own. Oh, I forgot and pay off the debts of three other retirement systems. A clap and bow to you because you make enough from your employer. Get another job, somebody has to do the job of serving you.

12) Comment by Iamhopeful2 - 07/05/2012

To Jeff - You said: " It's reprehensible that opponents whose salaries are paid by taxpayers continue to threaten extortion that will serve to waste taxpayer dollars in suits that they cannot win." Exactly why Pearson and Guillory and their ilk need to be recalled. We are tired of their extortion and their falling victim to Jindal's extortion.

13) Comment by Iamhopeful2 - 07/05/2012

no1zson - I fall government employees "get a different job" you and the rest of the citizens would be up a creek without a paddle wouldn't you? Are you also saying that private sector employees should not ask for raises? Are you also saying that Comrade Citizen should salute and goose step? Come on. The captioned picture above will be great for the Recall Bobby Jindal campaign which, by the way, has added Rep. Pearson and Senator Cromer in St. Tammany to the list of recall subjects - evidently filed last week. If Senator Guillory hasn't already been invited to that party, I'm sure he will by his constituency. www.recallbobbyjindal.com

14) Comment by no1zson - 07/05/2012

I really have a hard time feeling bad for the state employees. Even after all the revisions their plan is better than 90% of the private sector plans out there. I equate it to that spoiled kid we all knew growing up who complained about the new car his parents got him for his birthday, and how his mom would only buy him one new pair of sneakers a month, his allowance was only $50 a week etc etc etc. If you do not like the retirement plan, get your own. Just like the rest of us, if your employer is not giving you what you need get a different job.

15) Comment by JL70710 - 07/05/2012

Now that the 3% won't be used to free up operating expenses to cover budget shortfalls, they're all just going through the motion. This legislation was never about UAL; it was about covering up a failed fiscal policy. Legislature will do what it always does: they'll kick the can down the road or put it up as a constitutional amendment. Add to this the new report that indicates that 401K's are a failed experiment in replacing the old pension model in the private sector as they do not adequately generate enough money for people to actually retire, the leges are coming face to face with the conflict between ideology vs reality. What I see is a lot of back pedaling and weasling.

16) Comment by Grannee - 07/05/2012

What will I get for my increased contributions? This is nothing but taxation without representation. Living in poverty will be the dedicated state employee's lot in life. Poverty and begging on every street corner you will see groups of state employees with signs reading, Don't work here!

17) Comment by Grannee - 07/05/2012

Yes Guillory and Pearson for those 30 pieces of silver from ALEC and Jindal, you have betrayed us. How will you explain this on judgment day? If the retirement systems were going to crash and burn, why aren't ALL of them included? LASERS owes the least amount of money, yet you chose its members to fund this fiasco. Yes, I forsee a lawsuit that the state will definitely lose and leave the taxpayer's holding the bag! You people should be ashamed of yourselves. And you call yourselves human? You too Jeffie!

18) Comment by Grannee - 07/05/2012

Jeff, I was wondering how long it would take you to finally see what the Jindal administration is doing (eyes rolling). And to think, Guillory had the nerve to say the legislators were going to pass the best possible bills and let the judges and lawyers sort out the legalities is reprehensible. Just think Jeffie, how reprehensible it is to make a few people finance other people's retirement, while getting nothing in return but lower salaries and retirement benefits. This is the same thing the republicans say about Obama, taking from people who work and giving to others.... How can anyone in their right mind believe this is ok Jeffie tell me how?

19) Comment by morellok2 - 07/05/2012

After this legislative session ends, the only people who will seek employment with the state will be those who are so desperate for a job they will accept one with no future. Once they have gained some experience and have a work record they will jump to the private sector where they will have the benefit of a 401K but also social security. This is not the way to attract and retain a quality workforce for the state. On top of this we will have TFA staffing all of our schools with young unseasoned "educators". As a lifelong teacher I can assure you that no teacher has reached their potential in less than five years. It is a calling that requires knowledge and lots of experience. Why is this administration so determined to undermine the folks who work hard to make our government and schools function?

20) Comment by Manual - 07/05/2012

"Actuarial notes accompanying each of the measures — Senate Bills 47, 52 and 749 — indicate there would be state expense, including legal costs of court challenges." ---What do they care? The tax paying citizens of Louisiana will pick up the tab.--- Guillory said. “What we are going to do is pass the best possible bills and we will let the judges and the lawyers sort out these legalities.” -- Great way to run a legislature!!--

21) Comment by jeffsadow - 07/05/2012

Constitutional illiteracy and debasement of language continues. Louisiana jurisprudence is very clear on the notion that deferred compensation is not a tax; see http://jeffsadow.blogspot.com/2012/04/debased-rhetoric-again-appears-to-try.html. It's reprehensible that opponents whose salaries are paid by taxpayers continue to threaten extortion that will serve to waste taxpayer dollars in suits that they cannot win.

22) Comment by sharpie - 07/05/2012

"He said he has no plans to include teachers if they don’t want to be a part." Well, maybe the state employees don't want to be a part either? These bills must either apply to all four systems, or be scrapped.

23) Comment by SuzanneMS - 07/05/2012

At this point, I just wish they would pass whatever bill they are going to pass, so that we can get on with taking them to court.

24) Comment by Elderly Man - 07/05/2012

The only solution is for our state to pay what it owes. Its contract with employees gave the state low co-payments and the state has failed to meet its obligations. End of story.